Consider buying American!

Nothing unusual about improved sales *and* reduced profits.[/QUOTE]

No, nothing at all.

But in Jeff's world, the improved sales last month means GM is the
leader in automakers.

 

An interesting book about U.S. vs. Japanese car makers is "The
Reckoning" by David Halberstam. It compares Nissan and Ford but is
relevant to the others as well. One of the main themes is that U.S. car
makers are run mostly by bean counters looking at the short term bottom
line whereas Japanese companies are run by engineers and manufacturing
people who are truly 'car people' and more concerned with a quality
product. It was written in the mid 80's but is still applicable today.
An interesting read...

 

Much as I hate GM, I have to say that GM has actually made money selling
cars. Most of the money they have been losing hand over fist has been in
their finance division. Of course, you can't sell cars if you can't finance
them, these days....
--scott

 

It is less and less applicable these days, as Japanese car makers are
falling into the same traps that destroyed American car makers and are
increasingly becoming concerned with short term profits rather than the
end product. It is very disturbing. There are an increasing number of
MBAs running Japanese car companies, and that's a bad sign.
--scott

 

Errrrr... Have you ever fiddled with a Citroen C6? Some things haven't
changed!

D0d6y.

 

It's hell at the bottom of the market. You don't want to be competing
solely on price, because no matter how cheap and lousy you can make a
product, someone else can make it worse for less.

The only way American companies (and Europeans companies for that matter)
can compete in a global market is on quality. You have to be able to sell
a better product.

For the most part, the American car manufacturers are falling down on the
job when it comes to selling a better product. That's not because of the
workers, but they're the ones that are having to deal with the consequences.

Because that's what Americans are willing to accept, so that's what the
manufacturers give us. But then, I miss British cars with wooden dashboards.... --scott

 

All cars are simply transportation and when they wear out you throw
them away. The japs forced the Americans to improve the quality of the
cars but in that effort they all became clones and you really have a
hard time telling any of them apart.

 

I beg to differ. Some people like to buy cars (as opossed as renting/
leasing) and maintain them properly to get their money's worth. And
one would expect that after spending one's hard earned money it would
work every time. Same goes for computers or any other product, for
that matter.

If Japanese cars offer a trouble-free experience for the consumer,
it's no wonder people prefer them. As per clones, I have a hard time
digesting the Saturn Ion, Chevrolet Impala or Dogde Magnum designs and
can't find anything similar, thank goodness.

I read that a Chrysler CEO physically covered his ears when a chief
engineer brought up quality issues with some parts. A mechanic told me
he was getting recall notices for his Ford Focus for simple things
they should have realized before rolling the car out. According to
him, their idea was to sell the car and fix the problems, if any,
later.

 

Yeah, I'm afraid you're right, looking at some of the new stuff from
Honda and Toyota. Maybe it's the Korean's turn...or the Chinese...

 

Same here, once I learned of their Draconian policies toward their
workers I won't shop there for anything.

 

Most people I know buy japanese cars because they will run for a long
time without any real maintenance and now American cars are much the
same way.

Once you do start actually having your jap car worked on the cost
rises sharply. As was pointed out to me here, they require special
knowlege and lots of special tools along with very expensive parts.

BTW anyone who thinks of a car as an investment is an idiot. It is
simply an expense. A piece of metal you pour money into and drive
until it quits or you trade it in. The best use of your car buying
dollar is to get a junker and drive it until the wheels fall off but
most people live a little higher on the food chain. God bless the
people who buy new cars and trade them in a year or two but they are
certainly paying a lot for that extravagance.


There are a few "collector cars" that do increase in value but only if
you don't drive them much and keep them in showroom condition. (or
totally restore them at an expense roughly equal to the market value)
Even then, I doubt anyone actually makes a dime on their total
"investment".

 

Korea already has a significant market penetration and when the
Chinese come on board I doubt there will be much of a US or Japanese
car market ... at least not in the lower tier.

 

What worries me more that the cars/prices is the attitude of the
Japanese companies these days compared to days of old when they earned
their reputation with great customer service. I could post specifics,
but Nissan & Toyota have headed in the direction of "if we create cars
with a a major flaw it costs a lot to fix it then just deny the claims
and don't run any customer satisfaction repair programs". Honda has
done some slimy things too, although I don't have personal experience
with repair campaigns.

It's sad to see them drag out the lawyers and accountants to defend
and deny problems that their engineers have obviously found to be a
manufacturing/design problem.

 

Kind of like Microsoft.

 

Sure we lose money on every car. But we make it up in volume!

 

Some because someone here (whatever group that is) told you a story it
makes it fact?

The F250 does happen to be the best product Ford ever produced, but
that doesn't make it much different to work on that any other engine,
aside from some knowledge and special tools for that specific vehicle.

I have difficulty believing that. Maybe your aged Ford uses the green
stuff on sale, but newer Fords use a carbo-oxy as used by many other
manufacturers. Even so, the green is about $10/gal... you're
suggesting that the Honda coolant is $40-$50/gal.Last I checked, Honda
used a typical no-phosphate japanese coolant. Prices are about the
same for all, give or take a few $'s and some extra profit money if
you buy it at the stealer.

 

Maybe for the last month, but how about the whole previous year?
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hrfGP53YnWGipuckEK3htwwlCw6AD8UOVK4G1
http://tinyurl.com/33xdmz

 

But without a track record, nobody really knows that the American cars
perform like the Japanese nameplates in that regard.

It's a chicken and egg thing--who's going to try it, when it's a 99%
guarantee that buying a Honda gives you what you want and it's a 99%
chance that buying a GM gives you nothing but headaches?

 

I did before I bought my BMW but American cars are not very good.

 

Ya! Just for giggles, several years ago I wrote to Gates suggesting
that it
was the perfect time for Microsoft to get into the car business. He could
do the Microsoft thing and the Intel thing all in one shot.

I suggested that he devise an operating system for electric cars and
come up
with a data bus (like the PCI in PCs), power bus, and operating system.
But
he passed. Passing on ideas like this, he's never gonna make it business