Considering a Civic Hybrid...need help/advice

If gas is $1.80 a gallon... <<

I live in SoCal and it hasn't been $1.80 in about a year. It is $2.30
today and has been over $2.00 since around October.

Now that Opec is shrinking their output and tankers being terrorist
targets, gas prices are only headed UP.

!^NavFont02F00D5000AJGJHG]HGD68D78

 

Ouch. Please have your friend in the Prius go up to the factory
recommended pressures of 35psi front, 33psi rear at a minimum. It's
cushy enough, and will help with the tire life. (OEM tires on the
US 2001-2003 Prius had a low treadwear rating of 160, so they need all
the help they can get...) Several owners have checked the max. pressure
ratings on their tires (OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92 XL on the 2001-2003
Prius has a max. cold pressure of 50psi, OEM Goodyear Integrity on the
US 2004 Prius has a max cold pressure of 44psi) and prefer to run their
tires at around 40psi with +2psi for the front (so, 40/38 or 42/40 are
commonly recommended). Not as cushy, but better MPG and tire life.

 

Tire pressure at least 35 <<

35?! Doesn't Honda suggest 30 around town and up to 35 on the highway?

Also, have you had any experience going up mountains?

!^NavFont02F007F000DJGJHG_JGaHG8067BA

 

At a steady 70-75mph cruise, the car isn't being a Hybrid at that moment,
just a very efficient, small, four cylinder. that fact that it is a Hybrid
allows it to be a smaller engine than would normally be acceptable, but the
Hybrid should really affect the city mileage the most. I get 38-40mpg in a
purely urban environment, 3.8 mile commute, several lights, with little
other driving.

 

I thought he said the factory recommendation was 30.

 

I just checked the door panel and the Owners Guide. The door just says 30.
The Owners Guide says 35 for extended high speed driving,
over 100mph/160kph. Good thing I keep it at 35 ;-)

I live in a hilly area. I drive from ~1000 feet to ~2500 feet. I have no
problem with power or battery depletion. If I need more power, the IMT
starts supplying "assist", and the CVT automatic increases the RPM. I
suppose on a long enough straight haul there might be a problem, but I've
done the windy road over hill route with five passengers and luggage in the
trunk. Wherever there is something resembling a flat spot, and you back
off the gas a little, it starts charging, even though you aren't
decelerating.

 

Your friend may have been eligible for a recall/trade-in. My original
Prius tires wore poorly and looked like they'd only be good for 40K
miles; I commented at 5000 miles and again at 10000, then complained
at 15000 that they didn't look very new and might not make it to
40000. Then at 18000 miles I got a letter citing the problem; I took
it to the dealer, he checked the tires and gave me a new set. I've
had those on for another 32000 miles and they still look great,
probably good for another 30000 miles or more.

I tend to drive conservatively and get 50mpg on summer gas with some
air conditioning, 45mpg on winter gas plus lots of heating, here in
the Northwest. When I felt like driving for mileage, I averaged 58mpg
over 6000 miles. My wife has a lead foot and gets as little as 43
summer, 41 winter.

Cheers,
Bob

 

Brett Donahue - Internet Sales - could
give a $400 discount off list price, Joe Myers Toyota has apparently
done so for other Prius users.

Waiting list times may be suspect for a few reasons: (1) dealers want
to sell what they have on the lot, even if it's not your color/trim
combo; special orders take time. (2) Toyota builds the '04 Prius in a
mixed-production plant: 1 of every 5 cars was to be an American Prius.
They kicked that up to 2 of 5, but beyond that they have to add a 2nd
shift. Changes like that are not easy and provide good rumor-mill
grist. I've even heard that they're already retooling for the '05,
pretty unlikely since the changes will be minor. (3) The Prius is the
Motor Trend '04 car of the year. Demand has been very high, and will
continue to be very high until someone produces another car in its
class. So far we've seen a few concept cars but everything that's
likely to ship for '05 looks like a "me too" or a truck hybrid.

If she wants a Prius and is not too choosy, she can probably find one
on a lot somewhere. If she wants an Insight or a Civic, she is likely
to have more stock to choose from.

Best dealer in the US for the Prius is Carson Toyota in California,
but you're still only looking at maybe $1000 off or so.

Cheers,
Bob

 

A Prius costs $20000-25000. So do a lot of other midsize cars.
So what extra monetary cost would there be to choose a Prius over
the other similarly priced midsize cars? (Of course, now there
may be an extra cost of time to wait for one.)

 

Compare a honda civic hybrid to a honda civic non-hybrid.
Compare a prius to a corolla.

The cost difference is about six grand. If gas is less than $2/gallon and
you factor in maintenance and interest on the car loan, the extra cost will
never be recouped.

 

Then he was mistaken. Prius specs from Toyota are 35psi front, 33psi
rear, as listed in the Owner's Manual and the driver's door jamb
label.
Ancedotal reports for the 2001-2003 Prius is that those specs are too
low, leading to uneven edge tread wear.

-Michelle
'01 aqua Prius, '04 black BC Prius
(and my mother owns a '02 brilliant blue Prius)

 

Only if the Toyota dealership is really nice...

There has been NO recall on the Toyota Prius tires.

However, Toyota did issue a "Supplemental Tire Warranty" on the OEM
Bridgestone Potenza RE92 XL tires with "CHA" in the DOT code on the
sidewall. If those tires were wearing unevenly, Toyota would replace
them for free, up until 25,000 miles or the end of April, 2003. (So,
the warranty period has expired...)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/message/39999

I showed the letter to my dealer and asked them to check the tire
tread wear, and they just replaced the tires without even checking to
see if they were covered by the letter... <shrug> But that was well
over a year ago...

 

I don't think that works at all, even fully loaded. Something between a
Corolla and a Camry, whatever that is in the Toyota Line.

The Civic Hybrid lists for $20,650. To compare, you'd have to start with
at least the Civic LX, at $16,410. I won't say you need to compare with
the EX at $18,310. I have driven the LX, and it does not compare favorably
to the Hybrid. The EX might.

I would not have purchased a non-Hybrid Civic. It's not my kind of car.
I have already received my $2,000 tax deduction. I saved $576 in gas last
year over my previous vehicle, admittedly not a small econobox, but the
Civic Hybrid is a nicer car.

The routine maintenance on the Hybrid is cheaper than the standard Civic
for 2003, although that might have changed for 2004.

 

2004 Corolla is a Compact car
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19675.shtml

2004 Prius is a Midsize car
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19813.shtml

At least compare comparable vehicles... (a Camry is closer to a 2004 Prius...)
However, to do so you'll need to get the SULEV or AT-PZEV equivalents, as well...

cost of gas is only one issue. there's also cost of regular maintenance
(like oil/filter changes), and eventual replacement of items (brakes
tend to live longer in hybrids because of the regenerative braking, for
example). also add in the tax incentives for your country/state/city
for the hybrids (some states offer tax credits in the $3000+ range for
hybrids).

for comparably-equipped vehicles, the price gap gets much closer, to
almost a wash.

 

The Prius is considered a "hot car" and there's a lot more demand for it.
(Maybe it's because of CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM or maybe it's because Honda
hasn't done a great job of advertising that it even makes a hybrid.)

The '04 Prius has an odd new design (my wife says it looks like someone "sat
on a Volkswagon), but it does get better gas mileage. The Prius is also
(basically) electric at low speeds and from a stop and the Honda is gas at
low speeds and from a stop. So the Prius gets about 7-10mpg better mileage
in heavy city traffic. The Honda gets as good (or even slightly better)
mileage on the highway.

The MSRP and invoice price for both cars is about the same... but the demand
for the Prius means that there's a waiting list most places to buy one (in
Los Angeles, it's 2-4 months). Also, because there are so many people lined
up to buy the Prius, there's no flexibility in pricing (and many people pay
above MSRP). So the Prius could easily cost you $4-5 thousand more than the
Honda.

We priced out Civic Hybrid on the Internet, got email bids from a handful of
dealers, walked into the dealership we chose and walked out with our new
hybrid about a half-hour later. And, since the Civic Hybrid has NO FACTORY
OPTIONS (almost everything you want is standard), there's none of the
standard dealer b.s. about trying to rip you off on overpriced options.

We've been Honda owners for 15 years and love our Civic Hybrid. After about
2,500 miles, our city mileage is 42-45 and our highway mileage is 49-52.

Alex

 

The current Prius is WAY different than anything Honda has done. Honda
is taking it nice and slow, and simple. Toyota has advanced to fancy
and complex, and highly technological.

The Honda simply uses the battery to store braking energy and give it up
when needed during acceleration. The engine is very conventional and is
running the car MUCH more than the Toyota.

The goal of the Toyota is to keep the engine running in its efficient
powerband, period. To that end, the batteries and electrical drive
system are used MUCH more extensively as directly active components.
The engine is there as much to charge the batteries (again, keeping the
engine at peak efficiency load) as to drive the car.

In between all this is the very strange but very functional
transmission, and a computer to keep it all in check.

 

The Prius isn't even available with a stick.
The CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid is a real joy.
I like it a lot, and consider it a major portion of the car's functionality
and performance.

At 60mph, the Honda Civic Hybrid with CVT is turning 2100 RPM.
My Dodge Durango 4.7l V8 turns 1900 RPM at 60, and makes substantially more
engine/exhaust noise.

 

Nope.. door says 30 IIRC I go 5 over. (HCH, not Prius)

No. I can't see how it can be a problem in a CVT at reasonable speeds. The
computer will force charge if needed. The MT is a different story... if you
keep it in too high a gear, you *will* probably run down your battery. If
you do that, you're not selecting the correct gear for conditions and it's
*YOUR* fault.

Robert

 

I'm not sure what connection those two statements have with each other...