Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

Discussion in 'Civic' started by RPS, May 12, 2008.

  1. RPS

    Elle Guest

    www.fueleconomy.gov , among other sites, indicates the 2008
    Corolla is available with either a manual 5-speed (five
    forward gears) tranny or an automatic, 4-speed (four forward
    gears) tranny. Generally for diverse driving (e.g. some kind
    of cross between city and highway driving), the more gears,
    the better the odds the engine has of running at optimal
    fuel efficiency.

    Though I probably should have qualified this somewhat. For
    one, with other makes, there are some automatic four-speed
    trannies with variable yada that can do as well as or better
    than manual five-speeds.

    The bigger point to me is that it's worth checking the MPG
    for both the auto and manual versions of a particular model
    and year before just assuming the manual tranny will do
    better than the auto.

    Lastly, as others are saying and MPG aside, I think manual
    transmissions tend to be cheaper to maintain and are less
    prone to breakdown.
     
    Elle, May 13, 2008
    #41
  2. RPS

    SMS Guest

    Actually, an automatic transmission can easily go 200K miles with no
    repairs or maintenance other than perhaps one change of fluid. 200K
    miles of city driving on a manual will require at least one clutch
    change. For highway driving, you could go longer on a clutch.
     
    SMS, May 13, 2008
    #42
  3. RPS

    Elle Guest

    Actually, you're speaking in possibilities and outliers. I
    am talking about averages. I can say that, anecdotally,
    reports of serious problems with auto transmissions are much
    more common in this newsgroup than reports of serious
    problems with manual trannies. Fact is the engineering of an
    auto tranny is far more complicated than that of a manual.
    This of course translates to a greater propensity for
    problems.
    I would not generalize like this. Clutch wear depends on
    shifting style as well as stops and starts. I do not do all
    city driving but it's been almost all suburban driving, with
    some city and highway. My 91 Civic is on 204k miles on its
    original clutch.
     
    Elle, May 13, 2008
    #43
  4. RPS

    Josh S Guest

    A good analysis, but real world consumption figures show the Prius lower
    than the EPA rating, much lower in cold winter weather.
    On the up side for the Prius here in Canada there are Gov. rebates for
    low consumption vehicles, which drop the price of the Prius
    significantly, the Camry hybrid quite a bit and even the Corolla
    slightly.
     
    Josh S, May 13, 2008
    #44
  5. RPS

    SMS Guest

    LOL, it actually was Elmo one talking about outliers, claiming that 125K
    miles to be the norm for an automatic transmission. Maybe it's the norm
    for Ford or Chevy (actually I don't believe that either), but definitely
    for Toyota and Honda.

    A Canadian study on longevity (11-20 year old cars) showed the following
    as the five non-luxury vehicle brands with the highest percentage of
    vehicles (based on number originally sold):

    Saturn
    Toyota
    Honda
    Mazda
    Volkswagen

    Of course you don't know how much was spent to keep these going that
    long, how much oil the engines consumed, or how much was spent on
    repairs in years 1-10, but there's no reason to believe that these
    owners were willing to spend more on repairs than owners of more poorly
    ranked vehicles.
     
    SMS, May 13, 2008
    #45
  6. RPS

    Mike Marlow Guest

    I was not aware that they were in common production for those cars. Are you
    quite certain? Most of the Civics I'm aware of had automatics or standards.

    In any event, not all manufacturers have a lot of experience with them. If
    you want to jump on board with a manufacturer's early ventures into a
    technology, be my guest. Experience has shown that to be less than
    advisable.
     
    Mike Marlow, May 13, 2008
    #46
  7. RPS

    z Guest

    lots of discussion here, my additions:
    at this point, it's clear that side airbags are a significant addition
    to safety, i'd tend to make them a must.
    diseases of japanese cars, toyota and honda included, tend to be more
    age related than mileage related. as such, "easiest" way to own them
    might be to buy new or maybe one year old, then sell around the time
    of the "big service" where you have to change the timing belt. repeat
    as necessary. as pointed out, the depreciation on toyota or honda is
    pretty low, so a good deal on a new one is as cheap as a bad deal on a
    one year old. either way, it'll depreciate less while you own it than
    other makes, so a little more expense up front ends up saving you over
    the long run.
    if you are more into keep it until it rusts away, as with the 12 year
    old Camry, that's obviously less of an issue. in which case, you might
    want to consider a hyundai along with focus, mazda, nissan, because
    the cost of entry is less for them. hyundai quality has come a long
    way lately.
     
    z, May 13, 2008
    #47
  8. But is bigger better? That extra 4 cubic feet of passenger space does
    little if it is not in the hip room when you want it. Of if the trunk space
    is more in volume but the trunk lid is too small to fit a decent sized
    carton through it. .
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, May 14, 2008
    #48
  9. RPS

    SMS Guest

    That's a good point. I find the Corolla to have much more usable room.
    It's a lot more cramped than a Corolla. You can carry five people in a
    Corolla and not be too uncomfortable, but not in a Prius which is really
    good for only two adults and two children. Still, if you're using the
    Prius as a commute vehicle, and have a larger family vehicle for trips
    with more people, it's fine.
     
    SMS, May 14, 2008
    #49
  10. Well, that gives the nod to Honda--with its Safety for Everyone
    campaign, where every car gets every safety feature that was available
    at the time the car was introduced. Where the manufacturer does not put
    more safety features into the higher end cars and fewer into the lower
    end cars.

    (There's a big discussion about run-flat tires on the Odyssey, though;
    for years, many argued them as a safety feature, but since Honda has
    since made them optional and not mandatory, I think that shows the lie
    that people told themselves about it being a safety feature.)
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, May 14, 2008
    #50
  11. RPS

    Tomes Guest

    My real world consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is a reliable 50+ MPG
    in the winter and 52-55 nowadays. Blocking the front grille slats in the
    winter keeping the engine warmer goes a long way. So my real world
    consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is higher than the EPA rating.
    Tomes
     
    Tomes, May 14, 2008
    #51
  12. RPS

    Tomes Guest

    Grille blocking enhances the Prius' mileage significantly.
    Tomes
     
    Tomes, May 14, 2008
    #52
  13. RPS

    Josh S Guest

    For reference here are my facts:
    My '95 Concorde now has 140k kms on it.
    The engine runs perfectly, gets the original fuel mileage, goes 8k on a
    liter of oil and the auto shifts as new.
    The only repairs on the engine were a set of plugs at 95k, and
    replacement of the rubber parts on the engine external , associated with
    the fuel and PVC system, in '06.
    Engine service is oil changes at 5 to 8 k, always twice per year, plus a
    few air filters.
    The only transmission service has been oil changes every 50k plus a
    flush at 120k.
    A friend of mine has a '94 of the same car going strong at 210k.
    I've read the design was for 200k miles (300k kms)

    This is not unusual, but typical of this engine transmission.
    Transmission failures from '94 on are usually due to lack of adequate
    service.

    Oh I should mention that although I often drive on severe winter roads
    to the ski hills, the body is rust free and stil shines lovely. The body
    has had no special treatment, just washed with Turtle wash and wax.
     
    Josh S, May 14, 2008
    #53
  14. RPS

    Josh S Guest

    On a Goodyear test in the UK for 5,000 miles on run flats, they changed
    those tires every 50 miles.
    Kind of useless for highway drives in parts of NA I'd say.
     
    Josh S, May 14, 2008
    #54
  15. I'd think that Toyota would know that and have a thermostatic louver rather
    than risk having people block it when too warm.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, May 14, 2008
    #55
  16. RPS

    Crabman Guest

    Actually, this mileage is related to less transmission slippage, not
    gear selection.
    I have seen some automatics that were close in mileage, but I would like
    for you to point out one that surpasses the manual.

    Clay
     
    Crabman, May 14, 2008
    #56
  17. Current generation Honda Civic.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, May 14, 2008
    #57
  18. RPS

    Ghislain Guest

    You're lucky because I have yet to see one that doesn't have any rust in my
    area.
     
    Ghislain, May 14, 2008
    #58
  19. RPS

    frijoli Guest

    The only one I see that get better mileage is the CNG version.

    Clay
     
    frijoli, May 14, 2008
    #59
  20. The only one I see that get better mileage is the CNG version.[/QUOTE]

    Nope. Look again.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, May 14, 2008
    #60
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