Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

Just a short anecdote here...

I'm not sure what manufacturer introduced "lock up converters," but
Studebaker began using its self designed automatic featuring a lock up
converter for the 1950 model year.

My 1955 President, a hefty 4,200 lb sedan with 259 V8/DG-250 tranny
achieved 21/28 mpg in real time road tests in that era. Not bad for a 4
bbl carb, auto and pretty good performance. My uncle used to really rub
it in to Chevy/Ford owners...

In a lot of ways, we really haven't advanced much farther.

JT

 

So my slipping clutch in my old mustang 3 on the floor effectively meant I
had a six on the floor kinda maybe? Or did I miss a imaginary gear or 2?

 

Did you have a CAT on that Stude and run ethanol tainted gas?

 

Bravo. I read Wikipedia a few hours ago and I believe it
confirms Studebaker was first c. 1949.

They did MPG tests back then? What is the history of fuel
economy becoming important to car manufacturers?

Elle
Who pumped gasoline as a summer job when it was 59 cents a
gallon.

 

Agreed. I have no idea if the transmission cited engages the lockup
at low speeds or not. I could see it helping at 30MPH on level ground in
third, though...

 

There were a few small models with small engines that were designed
to be thrifty for just about as long as cars were built. It would be
hard to answer your question definitively, because it would depend on
how you defined it. Volkswagen used to boast about the 25 MPG Beetle
(although the heavier, faster, more robust Volvo Amazon would also
average 25). Models like the Nash Rambler (introduced in 1950) and
Plymouth Valiant were designed with fuel economy as a significant
factor. I'm sure that whenever there was a Depression or Recession, or
gas rationing, fuel economy was used as a selling point...

 

In 1959 the Mobil Economy Run began running real-world gasoline mileage
competitions with "stock" automobiles. Mobil had sponsored the Economy Run
for years but hadn't used miles per gallon (MPG) to determine the winner.
Some sort of Rambler won, IIRC. GM, Chrysler and Ford complained since they
didn't have any dinky cars that could compete. The Economy Run then became a
2 tier event with Rambler, Studebakers and other little cars competing in
one class and the "Big Three" in the other. Popular Mechanics and Popular
Science covered this competition extensively and the winner got bragging
rights. The drivers were automotive engineers with pocket protectors, slide
rules and taped together glasses. Classic nerds. They'd put skinny
overinflated tires on the cars, install final drive ratios in the 2.20
vicinity and drive like Grandma. Any result over 25 MPG was a big deal.
I'll open Pandora's box with this one, but I remember paying 24.9 cents a
gallon for regular gas in Cape Girardeau in, I think, the Spring of 1971. By
1974 things had changed dramatically. 59 cents was considered obscene in
comparison by then.

 

I imagine you are right, re the Depression etc. Maybe it's
not as obvious to historians because advertising back then
was not quite as developed as an industry. Nor were cars as
abundant, per capita. But surely a Depression-era salesman
used this as a selling point to the appropriate consumer
sector (those on a budget).

Wiki does indeed report fuel efficiency was a considered
factor for Volkswagen's, starting as early as the 1930s, and
possibly under orders from Hitler.

Another, lesser wrench to throw into this discussion, one of
which no doubt JT, you and others are aware: I see some
(fancier?) current car models give the driver some manual
control over when lockup engages.

 

Ha, that would be so Ford.

Indeed.

 

Really? Have you priced out a fuel cell lately? And where do you buy
hydrogen? Or for that matter, a car that burns hydrogen? Of course
you can modify a piston engine to burn hydrogen, but I don't think you
will get a cost advantage and it certainly won't be convenient.

The Honda and Toyota hybrids have been on the road long enough to
prove the doomsayers wrong. Hybrid batteries are very reliable and
it appears that they could easily last the life of the car in many or
most cases. The batteries and other hybrid components have an 8 to 10
year warranty so they are all likely to last the life of the car for
most owners. AFAIK, the warranty is not pro-rated.

 

I think it would be unable to maintain 80 mph at 2000 rpm. If it did,
you might find that you wreck the engine pretty quick.

 

As others have pointed out, the Prius is larger than a Corolla so the
comparison isn't completely fair. OTOH, a Civic Hybrid costs about
$3000 more than a Civic EX and the 40 to 30 mpg comparison would be
about right fro these two. So it could pay for itself and then some
during the period you expect to own it.

As for your original questions:

Civic LX or EX model is worth considering. LX saves you about $2000
if you don't need a sunroof, alloy wheels or a fancy stereo.

Use Edwards and the manufacturer sites to do your research. Google is
your friend.

I would shop any place that sells the cars. You can play them against
each other to see who will give you the best price.

 

it takes a certain amount of HP to maintain a given speed(dependent on
gearing,drag,powertrain losses,road grade,wind directions...),and that HP
might be not be achieved at 2000 rpm. it would increase cylinder
wall/piston wear.

the SI has only 2 liters displacement,and it's HP and torque is developed
on the high end of the RPM scale.

 

It's also fair to point out that there are Federal tax breaks
available to those that buy hybrids. If those tax breaks are still in
existence (and I believe they are), they greatly enhance the economy
of these vehicles.

And by all means, use the fleet manager and the web site of the
dealership. You can usually get better deals this way than by dealing
with the snake on the sales floor...

 

My "new" Civic is a '95. I don't imagine I'll ever own a car built
in this century.

 

It depends upon where the vehicle will be operated.
On the DelMarVa peninsula you can probably ride from one end to the
other in 5th gear on a 5 speed bicycle, except after stops.

 

"Joe" ...

If one is stuck paying the AMT (alternative minimum tax), there is no break
for them.
Tomes

 

And you are delusional enough to think there is, or ever will be,
enough solar power available to fuel all the cars onthe road? Then
there is the issue of how much energy it takes to make the solar
cells.....

 

Mental Health Care professionals call this "a statement posed as a
question". What he meant to say was, "You, Sir, are completely delusional!"
to which I am able to respond. This "question" is meant to confound.
Emotionally challenged people pose their statements as questions in order to
provide themselves "cover" from more intelligent, more aggressive or perhaps
more nearly sane people. This is passive/aggressive behavior. I believe the
most energy we need to expend as a species is the novel, creative human
energy it will take to make our planet a garden instead of a garbage dump. I
believe all humans are served poorly by their "leaders". I also believe that
each person awakens each day with the intention of making their lives, and
their children's lives, as prosperous, comfortable and happy as their
circumstances allow. We'll be OK unless the nukes fly. Then it'll be 'They
are on their way in and no one can bring them back. For the sake of our
country and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of SAC in after
them. Otherwise, we will be totally destroyed by Red retaliation. My boys
will give you the best kind of start, 1400 megatons worth, and you sure as
hell won't stop them now. So let's get going. There's no other choice. God
willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health
through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.'
Then he hung up.

 

Does that mean the Corolla or the Civic?