creaking suspension

'92 Civic

Take a guess- cornering and under accel/decel the front right wheel
area creaks like a big old door. Worn bushings, bend arm, cost, anyone?

 

Check the struts. Happened to me once.

 

wrote in

Most likely the springs moving in their seats, which are rusty. Take the
car for a long drive (an hour or more) down bumpy roads, which will wear
off the rust. If the noise does NOT disappear after that, then you've got
possible shock absorber problems.

 

Thanks repliers. Bringing it in this weekend.

TeGGeR, you gonna post your rides page to the group?

 

I think this problem might be the ball joints

 

I'm reading this board today to get some insight into this same problem.

My 1998 Honda Accord 180,000 m. 4 cyl. SE started to creak when it bounced
up over a slow speed washboard or in and out of my drive, etc.

It was a very pronounced squeak similar to a wet thumb rubbing on a ballon
for example.
When I took it to Honda dealership, they "spent quite a bit of time
diagnosing it" and came to the conclusion that it was the struts and wanted
$700 to do both sides.
This morning I was to get it done but called it off.
I discovered the problem over the weekend and it wasn't the struts at all!
I was cleaning up the engine compartment and supported myself while leaning
over into the space with one hand on the radiator. The radiator floats but
the hole is sloppy. There is a bolted on support that holds the grommet.
That's were the squeaking was coming from. I had cleaned this rubber and
applied a perservative many times.
To test the idea, I put a cardboard sleeve I fashioned into the space.
Driving around the neighborhood revealed Squeak was gone.

today I took the car back out there, explained to the dealer I did not want
their $700 struts.

 

Good move on your part. Dealerships use service as their main profit center.

Sometimes a suspension squeak can be worn bushings and squirting some
conventional brake fluid on 'em can get you some extra mileage before replacement.

JT

 

Something I've been wondering: how long can bushings and struts
reasonably be expected to last before requiring replacement? I replaced
the front struts on my '90 CRX about 7 years ago, but the rears and the
bushings are original. The car has almost 125K miles on it, and recently
the handling has felt noticeably "looser", for lack of a better word,
particularly at higher speeds - not nearly as confidence-inspiring and
"on rails" as it used to be. Had an independent shop examine the front
suspension, rotate the tires, and perform an alignment, but they said
they didn't notice anything else amiss.

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the diagnostic abilities of
the shop in question - I don't normally use them for much more than tire
rotation/flat repair, but for various reasons they're the one I wound up
at this time. What else should I be looking at? Are bushings and/or
struts the likely culprits when it comes to degraded handling on an
older car?

Dave

 

I have a 91 Civic LX, 177k miles. I replaced, for the first
time ever, the front suspension coil springs a few weeks
ago. I checked the dampers and believe they are fine. Since
your struts ( = coil spring and damper assemblies) are only
seven years old, it's hard for me to believe they are amiss,
especially if they were examined recently.

OTOH, cracked control arm bushings are very common with
older Hondas. You should be able to take the wheels off and
see these up close yourself. A dealership would surely
comment on cracked bushings if they were present. An
independent shop might not.

My Civic's front lower control arm bushings (the originals)
were badly cracked. In addition, upon disassembling the
stabilizer bar (an easy job), I found one of the two front
stabilizer bolts and its associated four "rubbers" badly
corroded.

In the last month, I have replaced all the front lower
control arm bushings and both front stabilizer bolts and
their eight "rubbers." I think handling is much better.

If your car has been driven in a corrosive climate (up North
or near the ocean), I would strongly consider replacing the
control arm bushings, for starters. This job is so labor
intensive that you should consider simply purchasing new
control arms (bushings are included).

 

Off the cuff, I'd guess that your handling issue may be struts.
Bushings when they go bad exhibit audible signs.

If the struts are going, the car will bounce more. Press down hard on
the fenders on each corner of the car and see how long it takes the car
to stop moving after you release.

If it bounces more than once after release, the struts are going or gone..

JT

 

I forgot to mention that I've tried the "bounce test" on all four
corners several times. None of them bounced more than once.

I'm also suspecting tie rods, as the problem is most noticeable during
even slight directional changes - there's a brief hesitation between the
time I turn the steering wheel and the car actually starts to react to
the input. The handling "looseness" I mentioned can best be demonstrated
by several quick left-to-right transitions with the steering wheel while
the car is in motion. The faster the car is going, the "looser" it feels
when doing this.

Dave

 

Well, I've had most of the other "older Honda" problems in the past, so
I wouldn't be too surprised if the bushings are worn or cracked. Still
burns me up to recall how much I spent at one particular shop trying to
get the car to run properly before I found out about the notorious main
relay failure mode, something that shop was either unfamiliar with or
conveniently neglected to mention until after they'd done a bunch of
other work on the car.

The car's spent its entire life in Texas - not really a corrosive
climate, but one with very high temperatures and humidity during 4-5
months of the year. And I don't think I'm up for tackling that
particular replacement myself, especially after reading your recent
posts about it.

I'm also wondering if tie rods could be part of the problem, as I
mentioned in my other post. The front stabilizer bolts/rubbers also
sound like they could be likely suspects as well.

Dave

 

It's funny how many import shops and dealerships do not know
about the main relay.

For a Honda driven only in Texas, and based on my reading
here and elsewhere, I think it's quite possible that the
bolts holding the control arms will not be seized. Then it's
a matter of removing the control arms (really just a few
bolts), taking the arms to, say, Napa Auto Parts, and having
them replace the bushings. You could even buy the OEM
bushings online.

At least, my local Napa has a bushing press service with a
one-day turnaround.

Or, as I imply, just buy a new control arm. They're not all
that expensive.

I am following the discussion on the tie rods. I haven't
done anything to my tie rods. Maybe after I finish all my
bushing replacement work, I'll see what maintenance I maybe
should do on the tie rods, then have an alignment done.

I have also found some fascinating discussion on DIY
replacement of the much bigger trailing arm bushings. On my
car, these huge bushings look far worse in condition than
any of the smaller control arm bushings.

Good luck. Updates are always welcome.

 

Could also be dry ball joints. If so, they should be attended to
promptly as would apply to loose tie rods. Seeing your reply to Elle
that you are in Texas (as am I), corrosion is a minor concerned unless
you're up by Amarillo or down in Houston...

JT

 

Speaking of updates, did you use OE stuff on your '91? Anything seized
enough to call for BIGHAMMER?

 

Yes, all the new bushings and the stabilizer parts are OEM.

For the front control arm bushings, I went through my local
import car shop, which coincidentally had the best prices
anywhere. The shop explained that they get these bushings
direct from the factory that makes them. The part numbers on
the packaging indicated the bushings were OEM.

Unfortunately the local import shop does not also sell the
rear control arm bushings. So yesterday I ordered one set
for one rear control arm from cheapesthondaparts.com.

Yes: All four of the front lower control arm bushing outer
sleeves were exhausting to remove. My arm tendons are wiped
out but recovering. Maybe a guy wouldn't have it so tough,
though plenty of reports on Usenet say guys too are wiped
out by the effort.

See my update at

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/browse_frm/thread/4f4af16cbf1e1fe6/0566454239dc492b?lnk=st&q=bushing+insubject%3Aupdate+author%3Aelle&rnum=3#0566454239dc492b

For the rear control arm bushings, I have been researching
huge Pitman Arm pullers, as well as re-designing a "bolt
puller" from Harbor Freight I bought for $11. This includes
evaluating the pullers Snap-On uses and rates from a couple
of tons up to 20 tons or so.

A tool with a 3/4-inch pressure bolt (fine thread, Grade 8)
should easily press the new bushings in (requiring about 8
tons of force, worst case for those in the rust belt), by my
calculations. If I push the tool to its limits (admittedly
risking breakage), I might be able to use it to press the
old outer sleeves out, as well. I think 12 to 20 tons of
force may be necessary for very rusted outer bushing
sleeves.

I have one seized bolt (of six) on the two rear control arms
so far. Based on past work on these arms, I don't expect
more. With my trusty air die grinder and a 1/32-inch, 4-inch
diameter cutoff wheel, I will cut out the one bolt. I am
aiming to have it done within four hours, conservatively.
Which will trump the two days I took a few years ago for
another control arm bolt using... you don't want to know.
Those inner sleeves weld to the bolt in many cases.

From what JT said and more reading, I think reports on the
net are a bit "all over the map" (figuratively and
literally) for bushing removal. That is, many report the
sockets-bolt-nut-washer method reliably works; others say
they pounded like mad with a huge hammer. Some have said a
two-ton press won't work. Some report a 12-ton press is
sufficient. I think the variation is indeed due to
differences in geographic location and perhaps how many
years have elapsed since changing out the bushings.

For the DIY-er, I think it prudent to change the bushings
like every six years/100k miles at this point, whichever
comes first.

I do think my Civic handles better. It's got that "corners
almost like it's on rails" feel again.

I am contemplating doing the trailing arm bushings within a
year. It's a question of whether I want to lay out $170 or
so for a supah-dupah heavy duty Pitman arm puller-like tool
precisely fit to the trailing arm bushings. The following
are the two best reports I've seen on it:

http://marketwareinc.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=3442

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200510/ai_n15740759/pg_2
(Motor magazine, October 2005 article by one Dan Marinucci)

The article above also has the OEM part number for the
trailing arm bushings:
52385-SR3000 . Cheapesthondaparts.com has them. Ebay sells
some Energy Suspension yada versions of the Trailing Arm
bushings for quite a bit less, too. I may go prothane yada
for them.

 

The latter, actually. I do have some corrosion on the sunroof as well as
the passenger-side A-pillar, so it's certainly possible there's more
where I can't easily see it. I'm going to have my preferred independent
shop get it up on the rack and have them check everything that's been
suggested, but unfortunately they're closed due to vacation this week.
Which turned out to be very bad timing for me when the starter in my
wife's Accord died on Tuesday. So we had to have it towed to the dealer
instead, and $450 later she was on the road again - if it had happened
five months ago, it would've been covered by Hondacare.

Dave