Curious...

I'm not seeing messages in the newsgroup any longer.

I don't know if it's at my end, or if a bunch of ISPs decided to drop
newgroups at the same time.

A response from any of the regulars would be appreciated.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

I'm still here. Mostly because I hate Web boards.

And nobody's bothered to reply to my Oil Evaporation message...

 

I'm not seeing any new messages either, by the way.

 

I'm still watching.

 

I'm here.

 

I have not noticed signs of posts not appearing. I still read here
just about daily. Right now I am planning the first timing belt change
on my new-used 2003 Civic LX. I have my homemade tool for the pulley
bolt figured out. It is a little different from what is at Tegger's
site, because it seems there are clearance issues with the newer, say
2001-2005 Hondas for the pulley tools. See
http://sites.google.com/site/hondalioness/hexhomemadepulleytool

 

Before you remove the old belt, mark a tooth on the cam cog and
a tooth on the crank cog (permanent marker) and count the teeth
on the belt between the marks. Write the number down and then
count the teeth again! Write the number down, and count the teeth
again for a third time! Mark the belt (yellow crayon?) at the cog
teeth. Remove belt, compare it to the new belt. Count the teeth
out on the new belt (3 times!), and mark with crayon(?). You want
it right! People who build engines double check every thing. People
who build racing engines triple check. If this is your first timing
belt, triple check it or more. You want it 100% right.

 

(M.A. Stewart) wrote in @theodyn.ncf.ca:

I just use Wite-Out. Better contrast.

Yep. One-tooth-off is too many.

I lay the new belt on top of the old to make certain the marks are in the
exact correct place.

A caution: Rotating the engine means the belt marks will gradually diverge,
so you need to get the alignment perfect the fist time.

Also important: Take VERY CAREFUL note of the tension on the old belt
BEFORE releasing it. Duplicate that tension on the new belt. This often
means needing to give the tensioner a bit of an extra tug by hand while
snugging down the tensioner bolt. Left to its own devices, the tensioner
is, as likely as not, to make the belt too loose.

 

I look at this group frequently. And, I read (with interest) Tegger's "oil
evap" post.

 

I wonder if all this would be easier if North American plumbing supplies
were made in Metric...

 

Thanks, Tegger. Us old usenet guys are dying out...


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

Well, since you asked and since the topic is oil, perhaps you'll share your
thoughts regarding an oil consumption question. I have a 10 month-old 2009
Civic 4-door EX. Had the first oil change at right about 5K miles per Honda
recommendation. I didn't notice any oil loss in those first 5K miles. In
the 2nd 5K miles I began to notice the oil level seemed to be dropping on
the dipstick gage. At about 9K miles, the level was at the bottom of the
dipstick gage and I had to add about 1/2 quart to bring the level back to
the top of the gage. Always check oil after fueling. Haven't noticed any
oil spots on garage floor so I'm pretty sure there's no leak.

I just had 2nd oil change at just over 10K miles. Asked dealership
service tech about it and was told that Honda regards as normal any
consumption up to 1qt. per 1000 miles. That seemed high to me but this is
my first Honda so don't know. I insisted they do a consumption test which
is currently underway and I'm supposed to return after about 1000 miles for
evaluation. I drive pretty conservatively and rarely push the engine very
hard. In the 10 mos. since I bought the car new, I doubt the engine has
revved over 4500 even once.

So, how much oil consumption is normal for this engine, and what should I
expect when I return for evaluation of the consumption test results? Thanks
for the reply. PE

 

A quart per thousand is pretty much the industry standard for warranty
repair of new engines with higher-than-average oil consumption. Honda
is not unique here. Interestingly, though, the same standard seems to
be applied to both big V8s and small 4-pots. Go figure.

My Accord engine still uses no oil to speak of (though the front main
seal's on its last legs, and hard right turns make it leak faster) at
224K. It regularly sees high loads (it's hilly here and I only
downshift when I have to) and 6000RPM engine speeds, and has since new.
The same went for my Civic when I had one.

Nearly none is average for nearly any modern car engine, but there is a
range of "normality" and your engine just happens to fall at the other
end. The real question is when Honda will tear it down or replace it to
stop the consumption, and that, I'm afraid, they have told you.

 

This will be something like my fourth timing belt change job on the
various Civics I have owned. All my tips for changing the belt are at
http://sites.google.com/site/hondalioness/timingbeltreplacement .
Interestingly, the one time I lost timing (due to setting the
tensioner incorrectly), I followed the shop manual's directions very
carefully and all turned out fine. Specifically, I did the following:
(1) aligned the camshaft sprocket's embossed timing marks with the top
of cylinder head; (2) use a screwdriver held flat on the cylinder head
to help ensure it is lined up with the camshaft sprocket “up” marks;
(3) use a rod in the #1 cylinder spark plug hole, and watch for the
rod rising to its max height; and (4) make sure the crankshaft keyway
is at 12 o’clock, a.k.a. TDC.

 

Elle wrote
[on a pulley tool made in part from a plumbing fitting]

Plumbing fittings and pipes, metric or not, are specified using
nominal diameters. Hence I think it would be about as hit-and-miss
with the metric system. I found that even bushings (a.k.a. reducers)
with the same nominal inside diameter may have a different, external
hex nut diameter. A person looking for a bushing for the homemade
pulley holder tool needs to take a metric ruler to the hardware store
and check for an external hex diameter of at least 50 mm (or possibly
45 mm, depending on what model Honda a person has).

 

tell it to BP ...

usenet is on its very last legs, outside of warez distribution and
even that.

J.

 

Well, if it evaporates, I didn't notice it. Of course, it was
synthetic but I went 8k miles over about 5-6 months and added none,
and I could not discern any movement on my dipstick (maybe a mm or
so?).

 

"Normal" is well over 8K miles once broken-in.

If consumption is indeed as low as you allege, it's only a matter of time
before it drops below 1K, and you're eligible for a warranty replacement.
Anmd that's what Honda means when they tell you that 1K is considered
"normal".

You need to estalbish a paper trail, both with regard to your dealership
and your attempts there, and your /actual/ oil consumption.

Be EXTREMELY PRECISE in your oil-level measurements. Here's how I did it:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/graph-may28-10.pdf>

And keep detailed written records. The more professional your approach,
the more likely you'll eventually get sympathy from the dealer and from
Honda.

 

nobody saying anything that you want to acknowledge...

 

with respect, and while well intentioned, you're not "measuring" the oil
level correctly and are thus propagating misinformation with that pdf.
in the honda owners manual, it tells you to do it with the engine hot,
and a couple of minutes after shut-down. you're doing it cold which:

* does not take into account temperature differences

* does not take into account potential issues with the oil filter
drain-back valve.

* does not take into account that the dip stick is *calibrated* to be
read when hot, not cold.

honda engineers are both smart and experienced. when they formulated
their oil check procedure, they did so in a way that would give the most
consistent and accurate results. you should stick with it and encourage
others to do so also.