Dark Side of Hybrid Vehicles

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Jason, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. Jason

    Dave Guest

    Huh?
    I recall an SAE sponsored talk from a Honda VP who said that the
    Insight got about a third of its mpg benefit from each of:
    lightweighting, engine downsizing and efficiency improvements, regen
    braking.

    The battery/motor is directly responsible for the latter. How will
    you do regen without a motor/generator?

    The hybridization enables the engine downsizing, ie it allows you to
    maintain acceptable acceleration with a smaller engine.

    And the hybridization allows you power management advantages, ie you
    can run the engine in more efficient ranges. Sourcing/sinking to
    the batteries allows this.

    The Prius is not light like the Insight. And it has a much larger
    battery. Thus much more of its mpg benefit is directly due to
    hybridization.
     
    Dave, Aug 4, 2005
    #81
  2. Current mid-size diesels can do that, too.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Aug 4, 2005
    #82
  3. Really? Don't all cars have advanced engines and computer control
    these days? I am not aware of any particular advancements in the
    Prius' gasoline motor which would explain it's exceptional fuel
    economy. The computer only improves economy because it has a battery
    and motor to control. If manufacturers could get the same benefit
    without these expensive parts, why don't they do it? The fact is that
    the most advanced gas engine with computer control cannot match this
    efficiency level, at least not with acceptable performance.
    I thought everyone was saying that the manufacturers are losing money
    on hybrids. As for CAFE, it wouldn't help your CAFE if it didn't
    improve milage.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Aug 4, 2005
    #83
  4. Yates is waaaaay past his "Use by" date. ;)

    Are we to conclude Yates is a conservative bed wetter?
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 4, 2005
    #84
  5. You sound like some liberal bed wetter, boy.

    <vbg>
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 4, 2005
    #85
  6. Jason

    Abeness Guest

    LOL. Hey, I'm just a realist, and happen to believe strongly in
    efficient use of resources--in general. Using non-renewable stuff up is
    inherently inefficient, but using it up faster is more inefficient than
    using it slower.

    Actually, I drive a puny Honda Civic and can't see around those monster
    SUV bastards, which fuels my ire... ;-)) But even worse is the fact that
    their suspension is so high up, and my Honda's so low, that my hood now
    sports a few good dimples where some assholes just backed right up over
    my car when pulling out of a parking space. So I'm pissed at SUVs for
    other reasons. GRRRRR!!
     
    Abeness, Aug 4, 2005
    #86
  7. Jason

    Abeness Guest

    Yes, of course. But the immediate subject here is a wholly alternative
    fuel source that does not involve gasoline, for the time when we run out
    of oil--or gas gets too expensive for all but the very rich to afford.
     
    Abeness, Aug 4, 2005
    #87
  8. Jason

    jim beam Guest

    wasn't a lot of the bleating about diminishing reserves done to get tax
    write-offs? wasting asset status?

    personally. i doubt reserves will be seriously pinched any time soon.
    or even during our grand kids lifetimes. and then we can just switch to
    biomass solutions. fuels that are liquid at normal temps/pressures are
    by far the easiest solution.
     
    jim beam, Aug 4, 2005
    #88
  9. Jason

    jim beam Guest

    "volumized" gas with low calorific content doesn't do much for cafe either.
     
    jim beam, Aug 4, 2005
    #89
  10. Jason

    user Guest

    Not to mention that the "benefits" of SUV's touted by so many just don't
    seem to pan out, in real life. Here in Upstate NY, for example, we get
    a fair bit of snow. There have been days when I keep track of which
    vehicles have slid/been driven off the road while driving to work. The
    vast majority of the time, the SUV's far outnumber the conventional vehicles
    when it comes to forlorn looking people waiting in the ditch for
    the tow truck. It verges on the hilarious.

    And then there are all the people who complain that they need cargo
    space. As a family who takes 4 people - including a toddler and a 4
    year old, with all the extra stuff they need - on week long vacations
    where we have to bring our own towels, bed linens ( which take up a LOT
    of room ), portable crib, etc, in a 4 door Civic, all I can say is,
    "Why haven't you learned how to pack?" :) Sometimes we have to
    use a roof bag, but buying as huge vehicle for activities that happen
    just a couple times a year is simply insane.

    For some reason, people keep asking me if I REALLY am a
    conservative Republican. ;-)

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
    #90
  11. Jason

    jim beam Guest

    funny! and so true.
     
    jim beam, Aug 4, 2005
    #91
  12. Jason

    Elle Guest

    The New Yorker had a great report a couple of years ago on the testing of
    SUVs, proving positive that they are unsafer.
    Ha.

    I know a couple who drive _two_ SUVs with Kerry/Edwards stickers still on
    them. I don't know how they can call themselves the liberals they claim to
    be!
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
    #92
  13. Jason

    Jason Guest

    I heard that Kerry was observed driving an SUV. When a liberal member of
    the press questioned him about it, his response was "The SUV is owned by
    my wife."
     
    Jason, Aug 4, 2005
    #93
  14. Jason

    Abeness Guest

    LOL. Liberal = "I can drive any unsafe gas-guzzling ststus symbol I want"?
     
    Abeness, Aug 4, 2005
    #94
  15. Jason

    Jason Guest

    One of the local newspapers mentioned some people that are now making use
    of recycled french fry oil that they get for free from restaurants. I seem
    to recall that country singer Willie Nelson makes use of it in his bus.
    The owner of one of those vehicles that burn it said that the only problem
    is that it makes the car smell like french fries so his kids are always
    asking him to stop at MacDonalds so they can order some french fries.
    Jason
     
    Jason, Aug 4, 2005
    #95
  16. Jason

    user Guest

    I'm not so sure that I'd even agree that they're relatively unsafe.
    The problem I see is that, barring mini-SUV's like the Subaru Legacy,
    they are trucks, and need to be driven like trucks - you need
    to account for the larger mass, higher center of gravity, generally
    longer stopping distances in wet/snowy conditions, and so on. But
    when the average nut climbs into his Ford Behemoth with the leather
    seats, climate control, and a ride as soft as a Buick Century, they
    *think* they're still driving a car. Until they end up in the ditch. ;-)
    Honestly, when it comes down to it, nearly any vehicle can
    be driven safely as long as it has a decent suspension, and appropriate
    tires for the conditions. It's just that most people don't.

    Being a liberal doesn't mean you're an enviromentalist, just like
    being a conservative doesn't mean you can't belong to the Sierra Club and
    ACLU. ;-)

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
    #96
  17. Jason

    Elle Guest

    The New Yorker article would really be worth any interested person's time,
    IMO.

    Like you imply, certain (many?) SUVs are in fact some top contraption that
    looks like a truck top but thrown onto literally a passenger car chassis.

    But
    When it comes down to it, one has to consider the psychology behind people's
    driving habits.

    So you don't give a testosterone laden 16-year-old boy a muscle car, period.
    It does to me. It also means you don't try to keep up with the Joneses.

    In fact, this couple I know are otherwise huge recyclers and
    environmentalists.
    You are simply naming exceptions to the rule, and huge ones at that.

    I suspect anyone who isn't a Democrat who belongs to either the Sierra Club
    or ACLU is far more likely to say he's a moderate this or that, or an
    Independent. It's highly unlikely they're self-described "conservatives."
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
    #97
  18. Jason

    user Guest

    Uh oh, I was a testosterone laden 17 year old boy who bought a 5L
    Mustang. ;-) Which was, if I may say, absolutely the worst possible
    car to drive in the snow. Ever. Even with excellent tires.

    It really depends on how you're using "liberal" - if it's the classic
    political definition, then a liberal could very easily be the owner
    of, say, a fleet of SUVs that leak oil like, well, my old Mustang. ;-)
    The sound-bite definition of a liberal is closer to what you describe,
    even if it's really an unholy combination of a political view with
    enviromental and other attitudes.
    I guess I'll be the exception that proves the rule, then, as a
    self-described conservative who is members of both those organizations, and
    until recently, the NRA, as well. ;-)

    ObHonda: If anyone has gotten this far - any recommendations for
    a decent roof rack that fits a 2002 Civic?

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
    #98
  19. Jason

    Elle Guest

    This is from the "Libertarian's Guide to Language Abuses--Vote
    Libertarian!," right?

    I prefer the real world.

    snip
    For whom have you voted in the past six Presidential elections?
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
    #99
  20. Jason

    user Guest

    Ewwww, don't even get me started about the Libertarian party.
    Unfortunately, they don't allow children in Middle School to vote. ;-)
    But in the ones I was able to legally vote in, I voted for Bush Sr,
    Clinton, Bush Jr, and Kerry - at least if you count a vote against
    Bush as a vote for Kerry. Local elections are totally mixed,
    depending on who happens to be running.

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
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