Dark Side of Hybrid Vehicles

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Jason, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. Jason

    Elle Guest

    Ha. :)

    Seems like the only people who ever try to invoke secondary meanings of
    "liberal" in political discussions are Right-leaning folk (which in my
    experience includes certain self-described Libertarians).
    I wouldn't call you a conservative at all. To me, you're obviously an
    Independent.
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
  2. Jason

    user Guest

    It would be pedantic of me to point out that the definition of
    liberal I used has been historically the primary meaning, so I won't. ;-)
    But yes, my experience with Libertarians has been that they generally
    attempt to prove to anyone who will listen that they're actually
    Libertarians, but just haven't been educated enough to realize it yet.
    Which, to me, is extraordinarily annoying.

    Again, definitions. My experience is that people who are declared
    Independents tend to mostly be leftists who occasionally vote
    to the right in local elections - but almost always go left
    in the nationals. I call myself a conservative because I tend
    to prefer political policies that pretty much leave me to
    my own devices, whether it involves launching loud and
    noisy rockets in the desert, or marrying a box turtle. But I'm
    happy to pay taxes for clean water, to give a helping hand to
    people who have had problems ( just not TOO much of a hand ;-) ),
    and to pay for public sculptures whose purpose and meaning I
    can't even begin to fathom. But hey, that's OK, as long as my
    industry gets big tax breaks so I stay employed. ;-)

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
  3. Jason

    Abeness Guest

    I agree that they are certainly easier now, but I can easily imagine a
    future time when another solution could become equally easy, once its
    technical hurdles have been ironed out and it goes into mass-production.
    It mostly comes down to how important people decide that it is to make a
    change, and the energy invested in finding solutions.

    It is pretty much impossible to get accurate figures about reserves. See
    this interesting piece: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4681935.stm
    .. If OPEC countries can pump more if they have greater reserves and they
    therefore inflate reported reserves, if they don't allow outside
    auditing, and if estimated reserves have remained unchanged in 20 years,
    we're basically without real information. Never mind the difficulties of
    mapping what's actually deep underground. Then there are the
    difficulties estimating future demand. It's a morass made deeper by the
    vast industries/sums riding on the info.

    For the sake of discussion, however, let's take an OPEC 2003 estimate of
    1 trillion barrels world reserves and the ~77.75 million barrels/day
    world consumption (from the BBC article): the reserves would last a bit
    over 35 years if consumption were to remain the same. Consumption is
    certain to increase, as China, etc. become more industrialized, however.
    35 years ain't that far off.

    And then there's the geological question of what happens to the planet
    as that volume of matter is removed from the crust. One 42-US gallon
    barrel = 5.6146 cubic feet, or 0.145 metric tons. I can't be bothered
    to figure out an estimate of how much crude has been extracted to date
    to come up with a volume. Per day it's currently 436.54 million cubic
    feet. That equates to 159.34 billion cubic feet per year, or 1.082 cubic
    *miles*/year.

    That kind of volume is miniscule considering the scale we're dealing
    with, granted--the earth's total volume is ~260 *billion* cubic
    miles--but crude is removed from the earths crust, which apparently
    ranges from ~3 miles thick in much of the ocean to avg. 19-28 miles
    thick on the continents surveyed at
    http://mahi.ucsd.edu/Gabi/rem.dir/crust/crust2.dir/crust2a.thick.gif.
    How is that volume distributed? Is it simply replaced by water (I've
    seen examples of oil wells atop water)? How does it impact on plate
    tectonics? Could we end up with monstrous sinkholes where oil is being
    extracted? What other potential problems do we face? I'm no expert, and
    simply don't know.
     
    Abeness, Aug 4, 2005
  4. Jason

    Elle Guest

    Likewise, it would be pedantic of me to point out that context is
    everything, so here, it should have been obvious that the definition I
    intended was the modern political one. ;-)
    Well put.
    It is helpful in the sense that it saves time: I move on more quickly to
    talk to someone else more intelligent.
    Interesting. I've seen just the opposite: Self-described Independents I've
    known tend to lean Right.

    Not saying you're lying or anything.
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
  5. Jason

    user Guest

    Obviously we need to start a country composed of your friends
    and mine, and we'll have a perfect place where, uh, ( desperately
    thinking of how to get back on topic... ) everyone will
    buy Honda vehicles and be kind to kittens. ;-)

    - Rich
     
    user, Aug 4, 2005
  6. Jason

    Elle Guest

    Hold on there: My friends are all Democrats. These Independents (of either
    your or my breeds) are no more than acquaintances or sports teammates.

    The Democrats stand for and behind certain highly important core values
    which the typical Independent is happy to abandon for issues that are lesser
    in value to society AFAIC. That's not irrational of them. It's just not my
    "religion" to put my personal needs so far ahead of greater society's.

    Not that every Democrat is right about everything. Some are horribly wrong
    about many things.

    Elle
    "... she writes as she checks how the stock markets are doing today. "

    Back to Honda
     
    Elle, Aug 4, 2005
  7. Jason

    dold Guest

     
    dold, Aug 4, 2005
  8. Jason

    dold Guest

    I used to make the same observations about Subarus. I think it is caused
    by the mindset that "I have 4wd, I can ignore the snow". Some would go
    flying by, at speeds I thought were ridiculous for conditions, apparently
    with success, others would plant it in a parking lot.
    I know people with large vehicles that are used rarely, for those occasions
    when they think they need power. One has a 2004 Ford F250 that sits most
    of the time, while she drives a Prius. Driving the F250 every day because
    you tow a trailer on vacation isn't sensible. I don't think owning one and
    leaving it in the driveway makes a lot of sense either, but ...
     
    dold, Aug 4, 2005
  9. Jason

    SoCalMike Guest

    Darling International Inc. provides recycling and rendering services in
    which animal and food waste products are turned into useful commercial
    goods, including tallow, protein meals (Meat and Bone Meal), and yellow
    grease. Darling also services the restaurant industry by removing used
    cooking oil and pumping grease traps.

    so basically if everyone used old cooking oil to drive, the price of
    this stuff goes up:

    http://www.darlingii.com/products/animal_protiens/index.html
     
    SoCalMike, Aug 5, 2005
  10. Abeness wrote:

    At last, peace in the Middle East.

    Maybe we should encourage consumption?
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  11. Maybe they're Democrats, not liberals?
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  12. Well said, Rich!
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  13. Last I looked, you haven't been appointed to speak on behalf of
    "liberals" (whatever they are).
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  14. In the modern US political parlance "liberal" is used as a pejorative to
    refer to anyone not toeing the neocon/GOP party line. It's used
    interchangeably with "commie", "pinko", "fag", "feminazi", etc. IOW, it
    has no meaning.
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  15. Jason

    Abeness Guest

    LOL! If only it were that easy... <g>
     
    Abeness, Aug 5, 2005
  16. <wisely> Somtimes it must be difficult to be truly easy, Grasshopper.
     
    Sparky Spartacus, Aug 5, 2005
  17. Jason

    Bebop Guest


    The HX has none of the hybrid's feature. It has a special lean burning
    engine. it seems like 05 will be the last year for it.
     
    Bebop, Aug 5, 2005
  18. Jason

    Bebop Guest


    Not excatly, you can run the car on battery alone. But you will not get
    far on it. Some people have managed to alter the program on the car's
    CPU and allows it to run longer on battery and recharge it at night to
    get better mileage.

    A true gasoline car of the same displacment will not get that kind of
    mileage, but a hybrid will.
     
    Bebop, Aug 5, 2005
  19. Jason

    Elle Guest

    You have a problem with people posting an opinion? Note the qualification,
    "to me."

    You haven't been appointed government censor.
     
    Elle, Aug 5, 2005
  20. Jason

    Elle Guest

    You need a course in reading comprehension.
     
    Elle, Aug 5, 2005
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