Distributor Bolts / Ignition Timing - '91 Civic Si

And I didn't say I generally drive it that way, but you didn't answer my
question either.

Besides, I'm not sure I fully agree.
If I'm just maintaining speed on a level road I see no problem with 5th,
and I don't think it should ping in any case since I find in the book
(and on the car) an anti-knock sensor which I guessed should prevent
that from happening.

 

chugging, pinging, knocking and sluggish accelleration can normally be
expected when in 5th gear at 45mph.

does that answer the question?

 

Certain cars are fine in 5th at 45 mph, like the Miata and the Civic EX.
What's relevant is the rpm at 45 mph.

 

That's about 1500 rpm in my Accord.

No pinging, chugging or any other untorward behaviors.
Just accelleration.

 

I'm responding to several responses to my original or second note.

Quite right and I have noted that before, but I just don't recall right
now, and it's good bit higher than the 1500 mentioned by someone else.

And for the person who had no answer but went on about reading the book,
(>>>You really should read the chapter in your Owner's manual) I have.
However, it isn't perfectly clear what it means:

4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.

I'm not sure what the second line means, but perhaps the reason my
mechanic didn't question my use of 5th gear at 45 mph is because the car
is geared such that it isn't a problem. In my original question (that
never got answered) I didn't suggest I was drag racing in 5th at 45-50.

I also can't imagine riding around at 45-50 in third gear all the time.
Doesn't sound like a very good idea. My car will actually make
59 in second gear but that doesn't mean there should be no upshift prior
to that.

And just for the record, I've owned a number of sports/sportish cars
over the years, and I'm not so far in the habit of killing them. I
drove my '79 RX-7 for just under 20 years, and a couple of Z cars, a
Datsun 2000 and an MG prior to that for various lengths of time.
Didn't kill any of'em.

 

4th would probably be optimal. 3rd will probably be noisy. 5th will give
the best mileage on a flat level road when cruising, but it would take
at least 1 downshift to get any reasonable accelleration.

hondas just arent torque monsters. theyre made to rev smoothly.

 

It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.

 

Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
same rpm doesn't produce that sound. That is the part that would tend
to make me think it isn't a ping at all, unless shifting to 5th makes
some ignition timeing change by default to favor mileage or such.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that and in fact that's what I normall do. But
see my response to Sean just prior.

 

I have the same "pinging" in my '99 Integra between 2000rpm and 2500rpm,
worst right in the middle of the range and really noticeable if I stay in
5th up a moderate grade. The speed at 2400rpm is ~50mph so it's a real
PITA on local roads where the speed is 45-50mph. I first thought it was
rattling heatshields (why the hell does Honda not fix that problem) but the
cat converter ones are gone now; then I thought it might be the notorious
rattling double wall manifold down-pipe. I also notice that if I rap one
of the fan shrouds with my knuckle it makes a rattle which is close to the
sound.

Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
is necessary to provoke it. I'm still suspicious that it *is* pinging,
since it's so load dependent - my take: Honda made a cock-up of the
ignition profile in the ECU. I'm going to try backing off the ignition
timing a touch - it is slightly advanced of the middle mark. I also think
oxygenated fuel is an aggravating factor here.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

rpm that high is not considered 'lugging' the engine. Mine is only at 1500. Have you
tried any of the combustion chamber cleaner?

 

I did mess with the timing a while back and I think the finding was that
I couldn't really affect it much at all... but I *could* make it run
worse by retarding it too far.

The most puzzling part of the deal though is why I can ever hear
anything at all because I would think the anti-knock sensor (mounted on
the block) would 'hear' something long before I could hear it and adjust
accordingly (timing or such). Of course if I can't stop it with timing
perhaps the anti-knock sensor/control can't either.

And I still have this nagging suspicion that it all may have started
with a timing belt change long ago. But I didn't notice the ping and/or
associate with the belt until too long after the work was done to be
able to complain about it to the dealer.

(I altered the subject since I wandered this thread a bit off of the
orginal topic)

 

My Integra GS has no knock sensor so not sure how that impacts. I've tried
premium gas, different brands of gas and Chevron Techron Concentrate which
claims to clean valves and combustion chamber deposits as well as fuel
injectors but nothing made any difference so it's possible that timing
adjustments will be futile too. I'll report back when I get around to

Dunno if you already mentioned but have you checked your belt/pulley
alignment and tension?

Sorry but I hate when people do that - it breaks all the threading in the
archives at Google.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

I'll try not to miss you note about it.

No, I've not done anything. I'll have to pull the valve cover to see
anything and for quite a time I was content to just stay out of 5th
below 50 and not worry about it. But it still nags at me a bit.

Hmmm. I wasn't at all aware of that, probably because I've never read
groups on Google. I'll refrain from same in the future.

 

And if you hadn't mentioned it, I might have never known, because
Netscape/Moz still shows my message in the same thread...just with a
different subject.

 

I didn't have much to do today so I pulled the valve cover to have a
look at the timing belt/alighment. Everything looks good to me, with
the little marks all lining up at TDC as per the service book. So
whatever I'm hearing isn't due to a TB installed wrong or such.