distributor

There is a clacking noise that just started inside the distributor.
What is it caused by? I assume I can fix it by changing the
distributor cap and rotor. Correct? (1990 civic DX)
Thanks, Chris

 

test the central shaft inside for side play. if there is any, you need
to replace the whole distributor. which may not be a bad thing since
the oem distributor condensers tend to fail giving weak spark at about
this vintage.

 

Vintage? We're talking about a car from 1990, not a car from before the
mid 70's. Ignitions went electronic 30 years ago and concensers vanished along
with points.

 

You'd think so.
But Honda retained their mechanical systems LONG after most of their
competitors.
Any here know when Honda finally did away with
distributor/points/condensors? I'm pretty sure the last Prelude (2001)
still used this ancient setup.

 

I'm sure Jim B. is referring to what's called the "noise
suppressor" at
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Civic&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=4DR+LX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR

The same part is called the "radio noise condenser" in the
first schematic at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html

He did an investigation of this sometime in the last year or
so IIRC and found an old "radio noise condenser" did
adversely and quite noticeably affect performance. The site
above discusses some of what he found along with my own book
study.

Majestic's online parts site for the 2001 Prelude, under
"distributor," shows an igniter (the electronic equivalent
of points).

Seems like the mid-1980s Civics were using some hybrid
combination of points and an igniter, according to Majestic.

Tegger has a discussion of points v. igniters at
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/index.html

 

translation: "about this vintage" means "around this age". ok?

and "condenser" is the term still used in ignition systems. yes, it's a
capacitor - capacitors were used in kettering systems too, but they were
called "condensers" and the term has stuck.

 

Condensers on distributors vanished with points. The statement that a 1990
car would have distributor with a condenser is absolute rubbish.

 

Also your statement that you should replace a distributor because of
a worn out condensor was BULLSHIT. No car made in any year has had
a condensor as a nonreplaceable part of a distributor.
If a distributor had a condensor, you remove one screw, pull the wire out
and replace it.

 

He said side play of the central shaft suggested the need
for a new distributor (housing, at least, IMO). He added
that this also had the advantage of getting the guy a new
condenser.

Sounds like good counsel to me.

From what I've seen on my 91 Civic and on other cars
discussed here, it's pretty usual for an older Honda to
require at least one new, replacement distributor housing in
its life. My Civic at 177k miles is on its second.

 

dude, why are you so tweaked? i said the reason to replace the housing
was because of a shaft bearing if it had excessive play. replacing just
the bearing is possible, but the reluctor timing has to be recalibrated,
and i doubt anyone here has the equipment to do that laying about in
their garage, hence replacement is best policy.

and that replacement has an additional benefit because it also means the
condenser gets replaced at the same time, and condensers start to fail
with age. sheesh. maybe you should take a moment to read what i said
before jumping off the deep end.

agreed, but if you get a new distributor, all this is taken care of.

on the tec - td01u, the type on this vintage of civic, it's a huge pita.
you have to strip the whole thing down because the condenser comes
with half of the internal wiring for the distributor so the whole lot
needs to come out. i'll post pics on how to do it if you want.

 

Except that it's bullshit. There isn't a condenser on that distributor.
Perhaps a 76 civic might have one, but not a 1990.

I think he probably doesn't know the difference between an ignitor, coil, or
condenser.

 

I have a back up distributor for my '83 Civic FE that has points and the
capacitor is mounted externally on the side. I realize that in order to
use this that I would have to route the coil wire through a resistor.

I have a soft spot for some older designs as they provided wiggle room
to fix on the road...

JT

 

I posted links before showing the service manual drawing of
the ignition system for a c. 1990 Civic CRX. The condenser
is clearly shown.

From previous discussions on this, I am certain he knows the
basic differences and then some.

No big deal. I'm posting for the OP's information at this
point.

 

They vanished even before that.

My '75 Corolla had a hybridized electronic ignition that used the points to
signal the electronic module when to perform the break function. The points
lasted far longer than in a Kettering system (25K miles, as I recall), as
they were never exposed to high tension curent.

It does have one, strangely enough. It's a radio noise suppressor and is
placed in the line from the ignition switch to the coil. Personally, I
can't see how it would affect spark.

 

By side play, do you mean the central shaft should be rock solid?

I replaced the distributor cap and the noise "improved" a bit. But now
it's a squeaking noise.

Also, I'm having a hard time getting the rotor off. Is there some type
of screw somewhere? I thought it just pulls off. -at least that's
the way my truck was 20+ years ago

Chris

 

Check for red dust.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/distrotor.html

 

Tegger your site is a great help. I recently changed my cap & rotor, but
didn't check your site first. I too thought the rotor would just pull off.
When I figured out that it was held on by a screw, I tapped the ingition
key 3 times to bring the screw into sight. Luckily, mine wasn't rusted,
& came right out. I may go back & add some anti-sieze to it's threads.

On a 94 Civic with 200,000 + miles, would you recommend changing the
coil & igniter? Are there any symptoms if they are failing?

 

The threads of that little screw (and/or the threads in the
rotor shaft) have a reputation for stripping. I would not
apply anti-seize. If anything, I'd apply Lock-Tite.

When the threads are fully stripped, either (1) a new
distributor housing is required; or (2) drilling through
rotor and shaft so as to use a cotter pin to attach them are
the remaining options.

This is one of several reasons why I think Honda tend to
require a second distributor housing sometime after about
130k miles/ten years.

See discussions of Honda coils and igniters at:
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#startrun

 

don't put anti-seize on the threads of the retaining screw! oem factory
uses low strength thread lock.

no symptoms from the igniter in my experience. one moment, everything's
working fine. next, she's dead and you're holding up the traffic. i've
had that a couple of times on the 88-91's. embarrassing and expensive
to get towed home. i used to carry a spare igniter. now, since i was
able to pick up a spare from a junkyard for a great price, i just carry
a whole distributor in the trunk. i fitted it and marked the position
so if i need to use it, it will be timed correctly.

i don't know for sure, but i suspect that my igniter failures were
related to an ignition condenser problem. since your distributor
doesn't have one of these things, i don't think it relevant for you, but
mention it for general interest. my condenser was failing, and spark
was very weak. i noticed this because at the time of one of my
failures, i had to "borrow" the distributor from my crx, which had been
refurbished with the newer style "condenserless" wiring. performance of
the vehicle with the crx's distributor was great. since both coil and
igniter of my old distributor had been renewed by this time, and
performance sucked, i guessed condenser replacement was in order. when
this was done, suddenly, the old distributor had the car performing like
a champ again! prior to that time, i'd had to replace igniters every 10
months or so.

 

Thanks Elle. I thought of that just after I posted.
Off to bleed my brakes.