Do I really need new brakes?

Went to the Honda dealer for an oil change and they told me I need:
"Replace front brake pads and machine rotors"

Is it standard procedure to machine the rotors when replacing pads?
Otherwise, why would I need it?
This car only has 14,337 miles (city miles) and the brakes seem fine
and are not making any noise.

Is the dealer likely trying to pull a fast one here, or is it possible
I do need new front brakes and have the rotors machined?

Please advise.
Thanks!

 

I would guess that you have a 2009 or 2008 of some variety of Honda. 14k
seems far too early to have to replace brakes. My 06 Accord I4 coupe is
still on its original front pads at 65,000 -- rears were replaced at 55k.
Our 0-3 Pilot went 75k on fronts/rears and did not require rotors to be
turned. Get a 2nd opinion from a reputable mechanic would be my thought.

 

wrote in 23g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

Normally the dealer wil indicate the thickness of the pads. Have they done
so in your case?

Honda explicitly specifies that the rotors should be turned each time the
pads are replaced. This is probably why the dealer wants to do it. There's
a good reason for it, too.

 

It depends on the driver as well. If you have a teenager, an
incompetant two foot driver, etc., it is entirely possible to run
through a set of brakes in 15K miles.

 

Thanks all for the info and opinions.
It's a 2007 but I drive very little.
They say that the brakethickness is 2mm. That was 4k ago at 10,209 so
I was wrong on the mileage before. NOW I have 15k on it. I didn't
believe it really needed brakes so I waited.

Thanks for the info about needing to machine the rotors. I never heard
of that. What is the reason?

I guess based on this I'll consider having the dealer do it since I
have a coupon to get it a bit cheaper than it was when they
recommended it.

 

What is a "2 foot driver"? I'm not an incompetent driver, but I do
make quick stops sometimes and drive mostly big-city miles. Lots of
starting and stopping.

Frankly I am very skeptical about my brakes being at 2mm or needing to
be changed already so maybe I'll ask someone else to check it for me
instead of going to the dealer.

 

wrote in

Are you asking /me/? You replied to /AZ Nomad/ with a point /I/ had made,
so I'm not too sure.

Why don't you just wait until you hear/feel a loud grinding noise coming
from the wheels? That way you'll know for 100% certain that the brakes need
doing.

 

There seems to be an unusual edge to your comments here. I'm sure he would
hear the wear indicators before any loud grinding noises & if you get it
done immediately when the wear indicators start to squeal, there is no
damage to the rotors.

I don't subscribe to the machining of rotors at every pad change. I've
never had a rotor machined since the first disk brakes on the '77 Chevy and
never suffered any consequences because of it (other than rotors that lasted
the life of the cars and more money staying in my pocket).

 

i think the reason they say to turn the disks is the mistaken belief
that rotors are warping. sure, they can give brake shudder symptoms
that seem /similar/ to warping, but the actual problem is that of wheel
seating, not anything actually wrong with the disk.

i proved this yet again a couple of weekends ago - friend got new tires,
the wheels were air-tooled back on, and sure enough, the brakes
shuddered like crazy. i took them off, scraped the rust off the
interface, wheel and hub, applied a little anti-seize, torqued the lug
nuts back on correctly, and "hey presto", all problems gone. i think
that when disks get turned, it's usually accompanied by general
clean-up, and it's that coincidence fixing any problems, not the actual
machining process.

regarding machining though, it does have a place. some aftermarket pads
can lead to very uneven wear of the disk surface. that is when you need
to machine - to make them flat again. when returning to use of a
quality or oem pad of course...

 

I had a mechanic tell me that I should have my rotors turned as the pads
would wear faster with even mild grooving.

Not sure I agree. I never turn rotors; I replace them and only replace
them if I can detect vibration during braking. I'd rather replace
pads twice as frequently than lose metal on the rotors to turning them.

 

really depends. the pads they use on german cars are really high silica
content and very abrasive. they munch disks frighteningly fast. the
up-side is that you never have any problems with corrosion or uneven
braking. and you don't need to machine the disks either. the down-side
is that you pretty much always have to replace disks and pads at the
same time.

try what i outlined above and see if that fixes it.

theoretically, there's nothing wrong with machining the disks, provided
they remain within spec. but the problem is that they often end up
being machined slightly off center, and i've seen that many many times.
so, end of the day, i'm with you - i simply replace.

 

If it's true that there are "wear indicators" that will make a noise
before there is any real damage, then that solves my problem! I will
happily wait!
But my questions:
Are we SURE my car, a 2007 Honda LX Sedan has this feature of making a
noise first?
And what kind of noise should I expect?
If there is this feature then why would everyone not just wait for
that before changing brakes?
If this is true then it is clear that the Dealer is just trying to
drum up business before its time. Also, I suspect that the "machining
rotors" is also just a way to charge more, since people here seem to
indicate that it is not conclusively efficacious to do so.
p.s. Is this one of those forums where "top posting" is considered
wrong? I always think it's easier to read this way, so sorry if I
offend.

 

It was a figurative roll of the eyes at the OP's suspicion that he was
getting ripped-off just because he's managed to go a bit further on worn
brakes, without problems.

The wear indictator is only on the INNER pad. If that pad sticks (common
on Hondas), the OUTER pad will be down to the steel first. And there
goes your rotor.

OP says his dealer reported 2mm left on the pads. That's pad-change
time. Sure you'll get a little bit more mileage out of the pads, but you
run a serious rusk of damage to those $90 rotors, especially at the
leading edges of the pads, which wear thinnest.

But, as I explained, /Honda/ does. Honda specifically instructs its
dealers to skim the rotors (on-car) at every pad-change. The reason for
this is to avoid expensive comebacks.

A home grease monkey isn't going to get angry at himself if his brakes
vibrate soon after a pad change, but when an owner has spent a tidy sum
getting a pro to do the work. you can be certain he's going to show up
at the service desk, and angry.

Honda brakes are notoriously poorly-designed, IMHO. They need more
attention than most.

 

wrote in

But the indicator is only on the INNER pad. If the OUTER pad wears
first, you're screwed. All it takes is the leading-edge of the pad-
backing to touch the rotor, and the rotor is damaged. Those rotors are
$90 each, plus installation.

Embarrassingly-loud squealing if the inner pad wears first; loud
grinding and vibration if the outer pad wears first.

Because that's a good way of risking damage to your rotors. Those wear
indicators are not nearly as reliable as they'd have you believe.

Brake pads wear just like bicycle brake pads: thinnest at their leading
edges, thickest at their trailing edges.

Honda specfically instructs its dealers to turn the rotors with every
pad change. There is a good reason for the instruction, too.

Just follow the tendency of the thread. If your respondents bottom-post,
then follow suit, to keep things consistent. If they top-post, then top-
post as well.

For top-posters, I prefer to delete all but their latest comments, then
bottom-post to that.

 

On 05/20/2010 02:50 PM, Tegger wrote:

dude, you cannot be serious. honda brakes are much better at their
primary job, stopping the car quickly and evenly, than most others out
there. including toyota.

now, do they need attention? well, the wheels need to be torqued right
to avoid juddering problems, but that's not the brakes' fault. do they
seize? i've never known a brake that doesn't, if neglected. that's not
possible to design against unless you either have drum brakes or spend a
LOT of money on a different sealing system. bottom line, they're not
"poorly designed". they may not be neglect-proof, but the job for which
they're designed, they do excellently.

relative to? you must be thinking of the rear mechanical/hydraulic
disks on your integra - well, most hondas, by volume, don't have those.
and for those that do, from a performance perspective, they're a smart
solution to the mechanical problems of that role. modern drum/disk
hybrids are probably one step better in terms of reliability, but in
terms of a single application solution, the honda solution gives the
benefits of disk /and/ a hand brake that actually works. unlike many
other previous attempts at that application.

 

I've never had any problems with un-machined Honda rotors compared with
other makes. This includes '81 Accord, '87 Civic, '95 Integra, '96 Odyssey,
'00 TL, '06 CRV and '08 Odyssey. OK. Honda recommends it, but my experience
says they don't vibrate when you change the pads, the wear is acceptable (at
least 90k miles between pad changes), and I have not experienced a rotor
destroyed because of a stuck caliper eating off the outer pad. I have
experienced a stuck caliper and the wear indicator signaled the wear prior
to any damage.

I do agree that 2mm is time to replace the pads. That's pretty thin.

 

Turning the rotor only takes away metal and makes the rotor more
likely to warp. If everything is within specification and there are no
excessive scoring (catching finger nails), then there is no need.

However, 2mm left the pads need to be changed. Now. The only problem
is to make sure the tech measured it accurately. I can tell you that's
not always the case. Some would tell you there is less pad material
left than it really has.

 

Yes, pads/rotors are replaced each time together. Sometimes new torque-
to-yield bolts for some high end calipers. But the braking performance
is far superior, and I suppose on the Autobahn that's a must.

 

oh, it's an absolute must - it's illegal to drive a honda on an autobahn
because they don't have them.

 

really??? you're not having a little laugh with us are you??? it
wouldn't be the time-honored means by which the nations dealership and
brake shop owners may their mcmansion mortgages and put their kids
through college would it???