Faulty alternator on honda civic 90?

Hello,

My problem started when I noticed that the battery light turned on -
stayed like that for a few minutes after starting the car. After
running the engine for few minutes the battery warning light turned
off. Now the light is on all the time no matter how long I keep the
engine running.

I suspect a faulty alternator. These are the tests I did and the
results I got:

- Voltage across batery terminals when engine off 12.4 V
- Voltage across batery terminals when engine idle 11.3 V
- Voltage at the alternator (one lead of voltmeter on the alternator
terminal the other on the negative terminal of the battery - did I test
correctly?) 11.3 V when the engine is idle - same as at the battery.

I also tried to increase the RPMs when testing the battery voltage, it
never increased from 11.3V.

Based on what I have read this does point to a faulty alternator, but I
just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Articles on the net
suggest that the battery voltage should be about what I'm getting 12.4
V, but that it should go as high as 14V when the alternator is running.
In that case I'm way below those specs. But are all the cars equal?
Why does the alternator on my honda have a sticker that says 12 V ...
doesn't it mean that that particular alternator should produce ~ 12V ?
Mine is currently 11.3 V which doesn't seem that far off.

I'm very new at fixing cars, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

=======================================

Unless it's also HOWLING, you can probably get away with replacing the
brushes kit.

Check www.tegger.com for more help.

'Curly'

 

I found my 96 accord ex's alternator to be faulty, when strange
electrical gremlins were taking place. Gauges and radio were randomly
shutting off, and all kinds of stuff. I got an alternator out of a
wrecked accord for $35 and everything works fine now.
Nick

 

An unregulated alternator in good condition will charge at well over 15
volts (and cook many components!). A regulator is needed to damp it down
to about 14-14.5V.

What you have discovered is that your alternator is not charging. Better
fix this quick or your car will be stranded. Your battery is already
*severely* discharged and will have sustained internal damage.

Curly has mentioned the brushes. When these go bad, the charge light
will usually flicker randomly for a while as the brushes make
intermittent contact, but will eventually stay on for good. It is
possible your brushes are simply worn out, but you won't know until you
remove the brushes from the rear housing.

To remove the alternator, you must remove the left driveshaft. The
brushes may be removed with the alternator in-situ.

 

Thanks for all the tips.

I'm going to have the alternator replaced at a repair shop. Removing
the driveshaft sounds too coplicated for me. On top of that have a
good garage to do this.

At least now I can be sure of what the problem is before throwing bunch
of money on this problem.

 

Sometimes, you can wack the alternator and if the light goes out, that's
your problem. The same goes for the regulator.

JT

 

probally this is going to be the first time someone hear about this:

last month i rebuild my alternator because the light was comming on
with the engine at low speed, it cost me 100$Canadian to do it, first
week the car was perfect, but sutently the battery light start one more
time to come one, but this time not only at low speed!!!!. (my
alternator mecanic told me one day that the way that honda civic's are
made, with all the acc. on and with the negative cable of the battery
off the car should shut off(only with acc. on: lights, heather,
etc.)... soo i stop the car on a parkin lot and with the acc. OFF i
pull off the negative cable of the battery, the car stay! on!!!!, my
ALT. was working. with out worring i drove back to my house. next day i
put my multimetter with the engine off on the battery it say 11.98V it
was correct, i start the car, the battery light stay on, and i check
again the V. it was 14.30V... what the F.1@! the light is on and the
alternator is working!. i read the repair book and it say to check some
of the fuse like: battery fuse, under dash #12 and #24( the #12 i never
founded). but i check all the fuses and they were OK!. soo. i decide to
do somme experiences: i ran 2 cables from the battery to inside the car
by the window and i connceted them with the multimetter. the result
were:
with the car off and acc's on: 11.10V + - .30V
car off and light off: 12.10V
car on light off (car not moving): 14.30V
car on light off (highter that 10km/h): 14.35V
car on all acc.on (car not moving): 12.80V + - 1.00V
car on all acc.on (car moving more that 10km/h): 14.30V ALWAYS!

soo that is happening with that light!!!!! that light is driving me
crazy!, i check the connection on the ALT. i even clean them and the
are perfect!. i check the hayness diagrams but i cant find what is the
cable that controls that light. because probaly there is a bad
connection somewere. IF THERE IS SOMEONE THAT HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM OR
THAT HAS A MORE PRECISE ELECTRIC DIAGRAM BESIDE THE ONE OF THE HAYNESS
REPAIR MANUAL THAT WE GET AT CANADIAN TIRE FOR 20$( BECAUSE THAT ON IS
NOT! PRECISE). LET ME KNOW. and for the people that will probaly reply
by saying that is a altenator of a battery problem is not!. we are in
december and there in quebec we start the day with temp of -13C and let
me tell you, every single morning my car start at the first try, even
with 250 000 km on it. i have a other car, a tercel of the same year
they are fantastic this 2 japans cars they had NEVER let me down even
with temps under -25C. they don't even burn oil. soo any info regarding
the F.1@! light let me know.

 

Here is an update.

Today I had the alternator replaced at a mechanic. $125 labor + $75
for the part.
The first thing I did when I got the car is grabbed my multimeter

Car off: 12.2 V
Car idle: 14.5 V

So I thought. Great! It's all fixed. (The battery light was not on
.... everything perfect)

I drove a few kilometers and the red light reappeared. I popped the
hood to do another measurement.

Car off: 12.2 V
Car idle: 12.5 V

So after a few km I have the same problem again? The one thing that
did improve versus the state prior to the change is that now at least
when I increase the trottle I do get more juice. As much as 13V ...
but that's still a bit low. Before no matter how many RPMs I was
running the engine at it was always steady at 11.2V

Now I also notice a rubber burning / electric motor burning smell when
I pop the hood. What does that mean? Bad alternator? Belt too tight
somehow?
The engine also sounds different. It has a sort of a whizzing sound
that increases with RPMs .. could that be the new alternator? Is that
ok?

Looks like I'm not out of the woods yet. Did the mechanic do a shitty
job? Did they put a crappy alternator in there?

He told me I might have to replace the battery? Could that be it?
Could it be that the previous problem degraded my battery to the point
that it won't charge anymore? (I did drive my car to the mechanic this
morning successfully - with the battery light on)

 

He sure did. Your "new" alternator is pooched. It's a standard crappy
aftermarket reman: bad right out of the box. Why am I not surprised?

If you don't mind the $400 expense (and possible backorder wait), you can
get a genuine Honda reman from your friendly local Honda dealer. That one
is guaranteed to last practically forever. Honda's authorized repair depots
use genuine Denso parts, the best there is.

If you're on a budget, you can have your grease monkey order one from
NAPA/UAP. Your chances there of getting one that works are slightly better
than from many other aftermarket places.

 

He sure did. Your "new" alternator is pooched. It's a standard crappy

I will try to take care of it under warranty. I called them and they
said that they don't trust the multimeter measurement (because it could
be the battery)
They will do a bech test. If it passes they replace it, if it doesn't
pass I have to pay $40 of how much it costs to perform the test and
then I have to look for another solution.

Could it really be the battery? That doesn't add up. Also, it did
work 100% perfectly well for the first 15 minutes ... and then it
crapped out. If it was the battery I would have trouble from the
beginning even though the alternator was fine.

 

If you connect a multimeter to the battery with the engine running and
while the alternator is charging, you'll see over 14V at idle. If your
monkey doesn't know how to do a proper charge test, then he's
incompetent and is looking for a way to stick you with the costs of his
stupidity.

Sounds fair... *If* they know how to do a bench test...

Don't think so.

Do YOU know how to check the battery? It's pretty easy.

It's BAD. Standard aftermarket, like I said before...

 

That's a little hot. The max setting is 13.8 vdc...anything over that
should be addressed.

 

personaly a had never trusted a mecanic the only time i go to them is
because i had to repair something that i had not the tools to do it my
self....well talking about the battery problem u can tell your self if
the battery is good or not. if the battery charge= is good/ if the
battery can't hold a charge= no good, with a bad battery, you should be
able to start the car no more that 4 times, and u wont be able to start
the car if you let the car off for more that 5 hours. thats because the
only way that a battery can be bad is because it wont be able to take a
charge. in hondas civics at least my 92 wont light on if the battery is
bad.

regarding of a battery can damage your alternator, is true!. but your
know why? i will explain you. because, went your battery is not
working, you force the alternator to give more power to try to charge
it. that extra charge that the alternator will try give to the battery
will end up with the alternator burning out. (normaly that could
happend in a perior of several hours or even days!.) NORMALY WHAT burn
out the alternator SOO FAST is a short circuit!.

 

personaly a had never trusted a mecanic the only time i go to them is
because i had to repair something that i had not the tools to do it my
self....well talking about the battery problem u can tell your self if
the battery is good or not. if the battery charge= is good/ if the
battery can't hold a charge= no good, with a bad battery, you should be
able to start the car no more that 4 times, and u wont be able to start
the car if you let the car off for more that 5 hours. thats because the
only way that a battery can be bad is because it wont be able to take a
charge. in hondas civics at least my 92 wont light on if the battery is
bad.

regarding of a battery can damage your alternator, is true!. but your
know why? i will explain you. because, went your battery is not
working, you force the alternator to give more power to try to charge
it. that extra charge that the alternator will try give to the battery
will end up with the alternator burning out. (normaly that could
happend in a perior of several hours or even days!.) NORMALY WHAT burn
out the alternator SOO FAST is a short circuit!.

 

one more thing, if you go to see a mecanic, go to one that is a
specialist in car electricity!, because alot of mecanics don't even
have any idea that are the 4 extras cables that come from the
alternator are for.

 

Thanks for all your help. I originally had the alternator replaced at
Canadian Tire. So I took it there back for warranty. They were
extremely unfriendly, but in the end I got the alternator replaced at
no extra cost to me and everything seems to be ok now.

This was the first time and last time I got something fixed at Canadian
Tire - it wasn't a good experience at all. It was cheap, but all the
running around wasn't worth it.

 

how many times have I heard that 'first and last time at CanTire'.... lol.
And I'm not being smug, as I too have had to say it before too....

Getting to the actual replacement specifics, I have a 98 civic, and my haynes
manual said to remove the driveshaft too. The manual was wrong.

After review on google, it appears the 90 civic is pretty much the same (see
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-89066.html or google 90
civic alternator). There is an alternator mounting bracket attached to the
engine with 2 bolts. Once you have freed the alternator from the bracket,
undo those 2 bolts to remove the bracket. The alternator practically falls
onto the floor.

I learned this the hard way on my civic, as I only discovered to stupid
little bracket AFTER I busted my ball joint stud trying to remove the
driveshaft. So instead of $90 to replace the alternator, it was $180 to
replace the alternator and a balljoint.... grrrrrr.....

t

 

I've always been a guy who got cars fixed at local shops, and the
occasional chain, always trying to get the best price.

With Hondas, it is seeming that the dealer is a much better option. While
the cost is generally higher, the exclusive use of OEM parts seems pretty
important for these cars, since so many of the aftermarket parts for them
seem to be very poorly made.