Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

Ever wonder what the extra $5000 or so hybrids cost is for?
Largely energy.
To properly energy cost factor a car or anything else you must include
all inception to salvage.

 

OTOH, the *source* of the energy needs to be considered in measuring
the carbon footprint. Hydro or nuclear (not that I support that) power
have little carbon emissions associated with them, but coal-fired power
plants are another story entirely. There are a lot of factors that need
to be considered, not just two or three.

 

OTOH, the *source* of the energy needs to be considered in measuring
the carbon footprint. Hydro or nuclear (not that I support that) power
have little carbon emissions associated with them, but coal-fired power
plants are another story entirely. There are a lot of factors that need
to be considered, not just two or three.

 

Nuke plants DO have a carbon footprint and it's pretty big. While
it's true that the plant doesn't put out any carbon while running it
needs enriched uranium to operate. Enriching the fuel requires a lot
of electricity. The concentration of uranium in the ore is very low
which requires a lot of processing (compared to coal). So getting the
fuel for a nuke plant will result in more CO2 output than just using
coal to generate the same amount of power.

Nuke plants really only make sense when you need them to generate the
material needed to make bombs.

Jack

 

Nuke plants DO have a carbon footprint and it's pretty big. While
it's true that the plant doesn't put out any carbon while running it
needs enriched uranium to operate. Enriching the fuel requires a lot
of electricity. The concentration of uranium in the ore is very low
which requires a lot of processing (compared to coal). So getting the
fuel for a nuke plant will result in more CO2 output than just using
coal to generate the same amount of power.

Nuke plants really only make sense when you need them to generate the
material needed to make bombs.

Jack

 

That illustrates my point about complexity, anyway. Thanks for the
correction. Do you have any figures to support the 'worse than coal'
claim, though? Coal puts out a *lot* of CO2...

 

That illustrates my point about complexity, anyway. Thanks for the
correction. Do you have any figures to support the 'worse than coal'
claim, though? Coal puts out a *lot* of CO2...

 

That doesn't sound right. Since CO2 is (more or less) directly
proportional to energy when burning fossil fuels, the above statement
implies that it takes more energy to make the enriched uranium than
what you get out of it when it powers the reactor. I am pretty sure
that isn't true. Reactors are cheap to run (for the energy they
generate.) It is the construction and dismantling of the plants that
is so expensive.

 

That doesn't sound right. Since CO2 is (more or less) directly
proportional to energy when burning fossil fuels, the above statement
implies that it takes more energy to make the enriched uranium than
what you get out of it when it powers the reactor. I am pretty sure
that isn't true. Reactors are cheap to run (for the energy they
generate.) It is the construction and dismantling of the plants that
is so expensive.

 

And the disposal of spent fuel and contaminated items.

 

And the disposal of spent fuel and contaminated items.

 

and paying homer simpson to work in a nuclear power plant as inspector
for 8 hrs a day.=) I would agree that energy to enrich uranium wont be
that much at all. The plant would run without enriched uranium at
first then when it starts producing electricity, make use of the
excess capacity to enrich the uranium.

Anyway, I would also like to assume something. The hybrid components,
major that is, would be the battery, electric motor, generator and the
energy management system. We all had batteries and motors and
generators for decades. These are all old technology, however they
were put together in a way that they become new technology. They add
CO2 during manufacturing to the overall footprint of a hybrid car but
it doesn't mean that these addt'l components are bad. I think hybrids
are no different from our household appliances, we have carbon
footprint in manufacturing washing machines but we still buy and use
them. who would want to wash clothes with their hands by the river. We
did not have mobile phones years ago, but now leaving your mobile
phone when you go out is like you have a feeling that you forgot to
wear your pants. Yep, there is no free lunch, but with this lunch your
next meal would be breakfast on the next day and not dinner time

 

and paying homer simpson to work in a nuclear power plant as inspector
for 8 hrs a day.=) I would agree that energy to enrich uranium wont be
that much at all. The plant would run without enriched uranium at
first then when it starts producing electricity, make use of the
excess capacity to enrich the uranium.

Anyway, I would also like to assume something. The hybrid components,
major that is, would be the battery, electric motor, generator and the
energy management system. We all had batteries and motors and
generators for decades. These are all old technology, however they
were put together in a way that they become new technology. They add
CO2 during manufacturing to the overall footprint of a hybrid car but
it doesn't mean that these addt'l components are bad. I think hybrids
are no different from our household appliances, we have carbon
footprint in manufacturing washing machines but we still buy and use
them. who would want to wash clothes with their hands by the river. We
did not have mobile phones years ago, but now leaving your mobile
phone when you go out is like you have a feeling that you forgot to
wear your pants. Yep, there is no free lunch, but with this lunch your
next meal would be breakfast on the next day and not dinner time

 

No, I don't have any figures. This is something that the industry
doesn't brag about. But I remember when nuke plants were new that the
proponents were arguing that the electric power was a byproduct of
making plutonium for nuke bombs. The pile had to be cooled and there
was no reason why the excess heat couldn't be used to generate
electricity instead of being thrown away.

Nuke plants need a certain percentage of U235 (an isotope of uranium).
I don't know the exact percentage of U235 needed but the overwhelming
majority of all mined uranium is U238 which is only mildly radioactive
and won't sustain a nuclear chain reaction in the type of reactors
used in the US. Enrichment requires a lot of energy to generate the
magnetic fields and to convert the U238 into a gas. The gas is passed
through the enrichment process several times as the process takes
place at the atomic level (you might say one atom at a time).

Most of the electrical power in the US is generated by coal fired
plants. Add in the CO2 produced by the mining machines and trucks
needed to haul the ore. CO2 used by the manufacturing processes to
produce the fuel tubes and build and maintain a long-term storage site
and you're talking about a lot more CO2 than would be produced by the
coal-fired plant supplying the load directly.

Also, the uranium fuel is owned by the US government and all costs to
mine, transport and enrich the fuel are paid by the government. The
fuel is leased to the operator of the nuke plant, not sold to them, so
the government bears the cost of storage as well.

US government = you and me.

Jack

 

No, I don't have any figures. This is something that the industry
doesn't brag about. But I remember when nuke plants were new that the
proponents were arguing that the electric power was a byproduct of
making plutonium for nuke bombs. The pile had to be cooled and there
was no reason why the excess heat couldn't be used to generate
electricity instead of being thrown away.

Nuke plants need a certain percentage of U235 (an isotope of uranium).
I don't know the exact percentage of U235 needed but the overwhelming
majority of all mined uranium is U238 which is only mildly radioactive
and won't sustain a nuclear chain reaction in the type of reactors
used in the US. Enrichment requires a lot of energy to generate the
magnetic fields and to convert the U238 into a gas. The gas is passed
through the enrichment process several times as the process takes
place at the atomic level (you might say one atom at a time).

Most of the electrical power in the US is generated by coal fired
plants. Add in the CO2 produced by the mining machines and trucks
needed to haul the ore. CO2 used by the manufacturing processes to
produce the fuel tubes and build and maintain a long-term storage site
and you're talking about a lot more CO2 than would be produced by the
coal-fired plant supplying the load directly.

Also, the uranium fuel is owned by the US government and all costs to
mine, transport and enrich the fuel are paid by the government. The
fuel is leased to the operator of the nuke plant, not sold to them, so
the government bears the cost of storage as well.

US government = you and me.

Jack

 

The battery itself is old technology, more than 100 years old. But the
technology to make the new batteries is new. I think the same is true of
the motors. It may also be true of the CVTs.

What about a mid-afternoon snack?

Jeff

 

The battery itself is old technology, more than 100 years old. But the
technology to make the new batteries is new. I think the same is true of
the motors. It may also be true of the CVTs.

What about a mid-afternoon snack?

Jeff

 

we have carbon

The comparison is not of Hybrids or walking.
The Hybrid car's additional cost to make is due to what?
Same question applies to front loading washers compared to much cheaper
old style top loader. Maybe it takes a lot more energy to make energy
efficient things. If energy cost is part of that price it must be
included in the life cost.

 

we have carbon

The comparison is not of Hybrids or walking.
The Hybrid car's additional cost to make is due to what?
Same question applies to front loading washers compared to much cheaper
old style top loader. Maybe it takes a lot more energy to make energy
efficient things. If energy cost is part of that price it must be
included in the life cost.

 

The cost of the batteries (which are expensive and use relatively new
technology compared to the lead-acid batteries that usually start cars),
the electric motor, and the electronics to control the hybrid system.
There might also be an additional cost for the transmission or device
that connects the motor to the rest of the drive train.

I suspect that the materials used to make the front-loading washers are
a little more expensive. They may be more expensive to make just because
the washer machine companies haven't been making them for some time.

Jeff