For SUV haters

Do you see any causal effect between the Clean Air Act and cleaner air
now? It didn't happen by accident and industry did not clean up
voluntarily. The US auto makers pissed & moaned about govt interference
while the Japanese auto makers got their engineers working on meeting
the specs. More than once the US auto makers have claimed the new
standards were impossible to meet, then met them. As a group, they're a
lazy yet greedy bunch, a dynamite combo.

The Clean Water Act has had a similar effect on our water.

But the current concern, as I see it, is that the Bush administration is
relaxing existing standards and permitting increased pollution. The US
has a lot more people & vehicles now, so no rational person doubts
whether the air will get cleaner or dirtier.

 

Are you claiming that benzene was found in human milk 200 years ago?

Makes no difference, you'll just say it's bullshit anyway.

 

Well, that's end end of any shred of credibility you had, George, sorry
to say. The US is so much better off than Europe with its unelected Boy
King who tells the world it can kiss his ass, he wants to invade Iraq!!!
Bush acted like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum then. Now, of
course, he has thousands of needless deaths on his hands. Be fun
watching him explain it all to Jesus when Bush buys the farm.

 

If human beings lived near a tar sands/pit which was rich in aromatics,
it's conceivable that it could have been found 1000s of years ago.

The fact is that I know a little of how benzene was sloshed around within
the past few decades and how it's handled now. I'd like to know if there's
any data which shows that, e.g. it is commonly found at higher
environmental levels now than say in the 1960s or 1970s.

Seems like you're the one in possession of bullshit!

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

What is your point? Do you just want to "piss and moan" about industry?...
why choose me to do it to? I have not denied that air is cleaner - I've
specifically said that it is. What I have also said is that we are at a
point of diminishing returns on auto exhaust emissions and the bureaucrats
are atttacking puny and insignificant "problems" which will yield near-zero
return amd cost us all big $$. IOW they need to move on.

BTW, the original emissions regs *were* impossible to meet with reliable
product, within the timetable and in the early stages produced some real
frankenstein solutions, like air-pumps... which are, in case you hadn't
noticed, making a come-back because of the latest round of futile,
ridiculous regulations. It took a good ten years or so to perfect the
catalytic converter and no, the Japanese had little to do with its
development or perfection.

I'll also remark that the chicanery and deceit of the scoundrels at the EPA
is a matter of record - there's good and bad on both sides of the coin

The trouble is that the "scientists" who pursue that line of work have
consistently lied about the causes and effects of their chosen pollution
target du jour, viz. CFC refrigerants & ozone layer, CO2 "pollution" and
sinks etc. They're still lying.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

What you think of my credibility matters not a jot to me. I'd suggest you
get yourself informed on the graft & corruption in the Iraqi Oil For Food
program and the creeping renormalization of the Hussein regime there... all
under the auspices of the U.N. and with the enthusiastic, expansionist
policies of France and Russia. When the only people in the Security
Council who vote against a political action are those with dirty hands, who
are indulging in illicit trading with the miscreant, the action is in no
way illegal. Hussein had to go. Unfortunately, Annan and his crooked
cronies will likely get off with a blush.

Obviously you haven't a clue about what the European Commission is, how it
works or anything of its misdeeds... nor its current attempts to ramrod
through a constitution which is a contemptuous attack on human rights.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

The evidence for CO2 induced warming is strong and a scientific
consensus on this is rapidly emerging. Of course, the degree and
implications of this are subject to debate. Perhaps the effect will
be mild. After all, the finite nature of petroleum reserves will
eventually accomplish what Kyoto is failing to do. OTOH, if the
effect is severe, the consequences will be dire indeed.

The effect of CFCs on the ozone layer is well documented and dramatic.
This has been the case for more than ten years. Fortunately, due to
banning of the worst CFCs and tighter controls on all emissions, it
appears that the ozone is starting to recover. The models (which have
been pretty good so far) show that it takes a lot longer to reduce
atmospheric CFC levels than it did to increase them. I think we were
fortunate that we caught this in time. It could have been a
catastrophe. And guess what? We still have air conditioning and
spray-on deodorant.

 

i went to see the movie sunday night at a sold out showing. i was
surprised to see the lack of grey hair. 80% of the movie-goers
were 16-30. could it be that there is finally a medium my gen
can relate to and respect to gain political awareness. one that is
not censored by the Righties.

go see the movie, then come back and call my genereation lazy
and whinny. we DO give a f*ck and we're taking bush and his
administration out so we can get back to progress.

 

Not that you leftists would ever use deodorant. If you chicken-littles
would quit burning American flags and marijuana human related CO2 emissions
would be insignificant.

 

You are also the most illiterate generation.
You are lazy and whiny regarless of whether anyone sees "the movie".

 

dont even need an affirmation for that. they could bring back mondale
and dukakis, and id vote for them instead of bush.

 

Never burned a flag. Carried one in a 4th of July parade oh, maybe a
dozen times. In any event, I don't think that all of the American
flags ever burned would equal one day of what is going on in Iraq.

 

The cause and effect between burning of fossil fuels and any warming is
tenuous. Your opinion depends on who you listen to and what you believe.
The GW models are absoutely crap - 30% of the data is missing on sinks and
yet they pretend to do quantitative modeling... this is utter heresy. The
measured data is also being fudged, err "corrected", to fit the models.
IMO it's largely a con job by the folks who stand to make the most $$ from
mass hysteria they generate.

Nothing dire need happen which would not happen anyway - an ice age is
inevitable one of those days/years/centuries. There's not a helluva lot
you can do about it. There are a few sane, honest scientists who are
willing to stand up and tell the truth, instead of lining their pockets -
seems like the "concensus" is following the money... predictably enough.
As far as burning fossil fuels, at worst the biosphere carbon pool will be
returned to much less than what it was when the critters/plants which were
the source of the fossils were alive. This is obvious to anybody capable
of logical thought.

As far as lying, they were forecasting CO2 sink doom & gloom >10years ago
because of the rain forest being trimmed. They themselves have since
admitted that the rain forest is not an O2 regenerator. Again, they
pretend to understand the system when they have only a smattering of an
understanding how the system works and then they run off and create
quantitative models which are tripe... and yet they still expect people to
believe them.

10years ago, they were telling us it would take 10years for the depletion
rate to reach its peak; now they tell us it's already recovering. Somebody
is/was lying; the fact is they did not understand the system and likely
still don't.

The models are again rubbish - see their forecasts vs. results. The
banning of R-12 was completely unnecessary; in fact R-12 has turned out to
be a minor contributor to any ozone depletion and the real culprits were
methyl chloroform and other less stable industrial solvents. It would have
been sufficient to supply all new cars with a revised formula refrigerant,
R-134a as the case may be, and continue allowing R-12 as a maintenance
product. We did not need all the turmoil, profiteering and forced gouging
which has resulted from the R-12 ban - it was *not* necessary.

I don't know where you get your info for what you "think" -- sounds like
Dan Blather -- but I'd suggest you read a bit more widely.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

||i went to see the movie sunday night at a sold out showing. i was
||surprised to see the lack of grey hair. 80% of the movie-goers
||were 16-30. could it be that there is finally a medium my gen
||can relate to and respect to gain political awareness. one that is
||not censored by the Righties.
||
||go see the movie, then come back and call my genereation lazy
||and whinny. we DO give a f*ck and we're taking bush and his
||administration out so we can get back to progress.

That won't happen in a movie theatre.
And if you think that's a documentary, then you are delusional.

Get your ass out of the theatre and onto the street, knocking on doors, asking
people to vote FOR a candidate with some answers - if you can find one.
That's the bottom line.
Texas Parts Guy

 

i would definitely help campaign for Kerry as i have for other candidates
with a tolerant and developmental view. however, here in new england,
this is not necessary since we already see the light(we didn't vote bush
the first time and we wont do it this time). unfortunately, others don't
share
this view. the french-hatin flag wavers wont listen to a import-driving,
college-bred yank.

btw, where did all those car flags go? guess we're not patriotic anymore.

 

watch out everyone, the grammar police is paTROLLING.
give yourself a ticket for "regarless"

go bring your sagaciousness to another post.

 

George Macdonald wrote:
----"I've no idea who nor what you're replying to here-no quoting
doesn't help.Learn to use your bloody newsreader."----


Reply:
Have you bothered to notice my e-mail posting address? Notice the
"@webtv.net"? You obviously have not heard of MSNTV (WEBTV) have you? If
you did,you would know that MSNTV DOES NOT HAVE NEWSREADERS!!
In fact,it is NOT a PC at all! It cannot download anything or acquire
new capability except as the administrative server networks add
capability.It is a CHEAP internet box (retail $69) that hooks to a TV
and a phone line.You were the only one at the time who mentioned
benzene.You are an intelligent fellow,I figured you could figure out who
was posting a followup reply (and you did).
You can quibble with whether benzene is dangerous or not and whether
it is in the environment or not.the EPA says it is a dangerous
carcinogen,not me.I am only spouting the government line on these
substances.

 

Not really, there was a situation couple years back in which the homeless arranged a
demonstration. They were masked and pelting rocks at the police. The police were out in
large numbers and had riot gears (half were mounted on horse trained for riots). Once the
fighting started, the cops went on a rampage and instead of keeping their line, they started
beating on anyone near by in mobs. It looked like an all out gang fight.

Pars

 

Well darn you managed it this time - a wee bit anyway. Umm, Usenet is a
quote and reply medium.

I did *not* quibble with whether benzene is dangerous - read my post again
- though the last time I looked it was still a "suspected carcinogen" in
the U.S. Personally I'd rather not breathe it in on a daily basis though I
did just that for a few years, several years ago in a laboratory... before
anybody cared. What I *do* quibble with is the claim that it's
environmental presence has "increased dramatically".

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

When bums throw rocks at police they are exercising the same poor decision
making skills that are at the root of their "homelessness". Good for the
police in your city.