for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

Yes, it's the "Standard" Mobil 1 I had purchased.

Michael

 

That's what I've been saying all along - the "severe" schedule hits
just about every driver in Central Ontario for at least 3 months of
the year - and often 6.,

 

As I've said before, I've read of more than one incident of Chrysler
turning down coverage for a failed engine (2.7L with reputation for
sludging/catastrophically failing at between 60k and 80k miles) when the
owner presented receipts proving oil/filter changes according to
Schedule A - reason for refusing to cover repair or replacement: There
is no such thing in the real world as Schedule A - vehicle was not
maintained in accordance with Schedule B (I'm paraphrasing). Of course
this is what I've read on some Chrysler forums, so admittedly this is
anecdotal info.

 

Which throws out all the prescriptions you've seen here, and says,
"You know how your car is driven, so change as you see fit, and live
with the consequences."
Reject oil change nannyism!

--Vic

 

Good advice assuming you actually have any idea of how well your oil is
holding up and why you might want to change it more often than required by
the "normal" schedule.

It might be worthwhile to consider why some activities are considered
severe...

Short trip in very cold weather - I say the reason this might necessitate
more frequent oil changes is because of contamination from water and
unburned hydrocarbons (blow-by past the rings). If you never take trips
longer than 10 miles or so, then I can see where this should force more
often oil changes. On the other hand, modern cars have reduced problems with
blow-by (better control of manufacturing tolerances), warm up faster and run
hotter than cars from the middle of the last century, and modern oils better
tolerate contamination. So I suppose when you operate your car in very cold
temperatures and only make short trips, then 3000 mile oil changes are
justifiable, although to be sure, have your oil analyzed at least once might
provide valuable information.

Towing - towing increases the load on the engine which results in higher oil
temperatures and higher shearing forces on the oil, which can lead to oil
breakdown. Of course if you are only towing a light trailer occasionally
this is probably not a significant concern. And vehicles designed to tow
heavy things, usually have better oil systems (they have higher oil
capacities, include oil coolers, are geared properly for towing, etc.). Here
is an interesting fact - oil usually thickens with age (becomes less
viscous). I don't think the increased loads are much of an issue for high
quality modern oil, particularly synthetic oils. So unless you are towing a
trailer near the maximum allowable weight most of the times, 'I'd say you
can ignore this reason for more frequent oil changes.

Stop and go driving, particularly in hot weather - In the past (like 1960)
cars often ran hot in stop and go driving. Running hot could cause oil to
break down - at least the sorts of oil commonly used in the 1960's. These
days most cars have very good cooling systems. When was the last time you
had a car run hot while in traffic? If you have a car with electric fans, I
doubt you have, unless something is broken. Stop and go driving doesn't
impose any sort of heavy loads on the engine - just the brakes and
transmission. So I contend that unless you have overheated your car, there
is no reason to change the engine oil more often merely because you do a lot
of stop and go driving. Maybe your transmission and brakes need extra
attention, but probably not your engine oil.

Dusty conditions - how many people actually operate their vehicles in dusty
conditions more than very occasionally? The engines of modern cars are
sealed much more thoroughly than cars from the middle of the last century.
Assuming everything is in good order, the main entry point of dirt into your
engine is through the air cleaner. So make sure you have a good air cleaner
and stay out of volcanic ash and I think you don't need to worry about dusty
conditions. Let the looks of your air filter be your guide. BTW, changing
your air filter too often is actually a bad idea.

Lot of stop and go driving or idling - clearly if you are driving slowly and
spend lots of time in lower gears, and/or spend lots of time with the engine
idling with the car not moving, you are altering the relationship between
the number of engine revolutions and the number of miles the vehicle has
traveled. I suppose in extreme cases (like Cops sitting on the side of the
road clocking traffic) you can double the number of engine revolutions
experienced per odometer mile recorded. So if you use you cars most of the
time for clocking speeders, delivering pizza, or as a taxi, more often oil
changes may be warranted.

You should change your oil as often as you like, but just think about why
you are doing it. Today's oils are much better than the oils available from
even the 1980's. Modern fuel injected cars don't contaminate oil like older
carbureted cars did. The removal of lead from gasoline has eliminated a
major source of oil contamination. EPA rules have reduced the amount of
sulfur in gasoline - another source of contamination eliminated.

I have a hard time going past 3000 miles myself, but I am trying to be more
responsible. My 2009 F150 allows for 7500 mile oil changes and does have an
oil change reminder, but it can be adjusted, so I set mine for 80% of 7500
miles. My Fusion doesn't have an oil change reminder and I constantly have
to check my records to avoid changing the oil more often that I consider
necessary. My SO, Sisters, and Mothers all have Toyotas with 5000 mile oil
change indicators. I consider this more than adequate (and the SO thinks it
is excessive - she keeps reminding me her old Camry allowed for 10,000 mile
oil changes).

Ed

 

that's it ed - try to blend in...

 

And don't use a K&N filter (and - no - I'm not a troll trying to start a
fight with anybody).

Other than unnecessary expense of throwing away an unspent filter, why?
You're going to say you need some dust to clog up the bigger holes?
Still better than a K&N or equivalent.

 

No, in fact they run COLDER to reduce Oxides of Nitrogen emissions.
You do NOT see many 195F thermostats any more (if any).

The engine still runs "hotter" in stop and go driving. The coolant
temperature may not be MUCH warmer, but the oil teperatures and total
underhood temperatures are higher with less airflow. The BIGGEST
reason todays cars do not overheat in traffic is the electric fan. The
engine driven fans were running slowest when they were needed most.
Also, the heat produced in the torque converter while idling along in
gear goes STRAIGHT INTO THE RADIATOR on most cars with automatic
transmissions. The electric fan runs non-stop to keep the temperatures
within limits.

 

wrote in

"Colder" for NOx refers to combustion chamber temperatures that are kept well
below 2,500F, above which is where NOx are mostly formed. Thermostat ratings
have nothing to do with that.

Modern engines DO warm up faster than engines of yesteryear. Emissions-
control and fuel-economy regulations see to that.

I question the assertion that modern engines run "hotter", though. I suspect
it would be more correct to say that they reach (and stay at) operating-
temperature more efficiently than older engines.

 

What percentage had the sludge problem, 1%?

I don't know the answer to either question, but that does not mean there is
or is not a correlation.

 

Seem old cars had 180 degree thermos pretty commonly.
I don't pay much attention but it seems the last few I put in were
195.
Still easy to get burned by hot oil in any case.

--Vic

 

I see 78C (172F) thermostats in new Hondas and Toyotas. Keep in mind that
this is an OPENING temperature. 172F thermostats are fully-open at 194F.

 

Not nothing. Try to get your 1996-2010 vehicle to pass NOX with a 195
thermostat installed. It MIGHT pass - but very good chance it won't.
I've had to remove hot stats and put in the recommended cold stat on
quite a few vehicles to get them to pass NOX.

They DO warm up faster.

 

And when I say a colder thermostat - NOT a 160!!!
And double checking, my PT Cruiser DOES specify a 195 'stat!!. I know
for a few years 185 was standard and 195 would cause NOX to go up on
some vehicles.It looks like since about 1996 (and ealier on some)they
have gone back to 195 from 180 (along with dual bed converters to
handle the NOX better)

So I was wrong on the later stuff. I keep forgetting how fast the
years are passing by. On the 1988 and 2005 vehicles I last got rid of,
hot stats failed NOX -.

 

That's surprising as my ancient Hondas call for 180° thermostats where
later models called for the 195° units.

Probably the fancy (and expensive) electronics make that possible.

JT

 

Does not the fan turn-on temp. more determine steady state temperature
once the thermostat has opened? It may or may not be that the
thermostat stays in continuously modulating mode (vs. full open) under
most ambient air and load conditions during operation, but I suspect
that the fans and their turn-on temp. as defined by the accuracy of the
coolant temp. sensor and the PCM/ECM setpoint are the dominant factor.

 

Honda Canada, and presumably the owners' manuals in Canadian Hondas,
have a different, regular maintenance schedule than the one talked
about for U.S. Hondas. From
http://www.honda.ca/HondaCA2006/YourHonda/HondaService/MaintCalcSched.asp?year=2003&modelid=1&minder=False&TrimID=162&L=E,
for my 2003 Civic if driven in Canada, the oil is to be changed every
5k miles/4 months.

The Honda Canada site also states that "most maintenance items are
more dependent on distance driven than time."

 

Yes - the thermostat only controls the MINIMUM operating temperature.
The fan control has more control over the upper operating temps.

 

Don't go there. I can't even convince my Son he is an idiot for using
a K&N Air Filter. I keep telling myself, his car, his money.

Read these references and decide for yourself -

http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html
http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/4991/component_connection_the_dirty_little_secrets_of_filters.aspx
http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf
- go to page 10 or so

My largest farm tractors have air filter restriction gauges (and
back-up air filters). In 30 years I've had a filter restriction light
come on once. Still I like to replace the air filters annually because
I worry about the filters degrading over time.

I wish I had a good picture of peanut picking...then you'd know what
real dusty conditions are like. I've been in dust so thick you
couldn't see past the front of the tractor. Not fun...but at least
I've always had a tractor with a cab. My Dad picked peanuts with open
deck tractors.

Ed

 

OK, I'll bite, what's a K&N filter?