for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

You'd think that being parked on a pair of ramps would clue her in
that something was going on...

 

superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some
superstitious excuse.

 

nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in.

 

I didn't say that ALL old timers were like this, just that it is the
common thread.

 

Because as everyone knows, even you, there's bang for the buck to
consider.

Thanks for your hyperbole, anyway.

 

My 83 year old father is perfectly happy with the Honda maintenance
minder.

He putters around town, and intersperses that with some 1000 mile trips
now and then. At 10500 miles on his MDX, it's now indicating almost
time for his second oil change. I think it just hit the 15% oil life
remaining, and flashed up the "get ready" indicator. And that was in
the middle of one of those 1000 mile trips.

So, it'll be 11K to 12K miles before the second oil change. I guess
that depends on how much puttering he does. But now that the
temperature is warming up, it'll probably be closer to 12K miles is my
guess.

 

superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some
superstitious excuse.[/QUOTE]

Just ask the folks who are holding their breaths to get on a jury for a
Toyota lawsuit, so they can justify their superstition by awarding a
huge settlement to people who are CLEARLY the victims of cosmic rays
banging on their ECUs and gas pedals.

 

That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in
severe conditions.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Like my dad.

And Honda's computer indicates somewhere between 5K and 6K oil changes.

 

That's why you leave the hood up...

 

When you get an extra 1/4 to 1/2 a quart out, I have to think so.

 

If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil
turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5%
old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%?

 

So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question.

I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day.
Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't
their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out
their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too
often?
Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like
some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it
that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without
comment?

The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel
it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good
to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of
belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to
black engine oil?

-jim

 

ooooh, "black oil" is evil!!!

dude, have you ever worked on diesels? those things have "black oil"
almost instantly. what then - change the oil every 500 miles? or are
you going to bother to bust open a can of brains, figure out what
matters based on research and learn that "black oil" doesn't mean a
damned thing?

here's how it works:
combustion produces, among other things, soot. soot is black. i'm sure
you're with me so far. but, oil lubrication in a car engine uses
something called "hydrodynamic separation". simply, that means the
metal bits in a car don't actually touch, they are separated by an oil
film. that oil film has a measurable thickness

http://www.answers.com/topic/lubrication-5

if your soot particles are small enough to "fit" in the hydrodynamic
film, the metals surfaces don't even know they're there. and that's the
job of the oil filter - to makes sure that the big particles are trapped
and only the harmless stuff flows through.

beyond that, if the oil is chemically and thermally stable, and has the
chemical ingredients to handle other combustion products like acid, and
the filter is working properly, "black oil" is actually an indication
that the oil is doing its job properly - it is holding everything in
suspension and continuing to flow.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4291579733/

 

that cosmic ray story was a typical microsoft bullshit excuse for
writing crappy code. then came linux that didnt crash running on the
same machine and yet another bullshit ignorant superstition was exploded.

 

like i said - dilution.

suggest you go to a junk yard and look at a few engines with the rocker
cover removed - you'll see examples of these pooling features and the
camshafts that sit in them. honda d-series is one example.

 

"think" not "know".

 

There are. Vaccuuming causes tons of problems (asthma in children, for
example). Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health problems.
People that constantly use those germ killing wipes are making themselves
sicker every day.

Are we now trying to demonize anyone that points out 'hey, that is a big
waste of money'?

People that want to reduce their country's dependence on foreign oil?
People that want the environment to be less poluted?
People that are just trying to give helpful financial advice?

Next up: irrational fear that someone will let out word that car wax isn't
really beneficial.

 

On 03/31/2010 06:48 AM, Obveeus wrote:

no shit. if you look at old cars with peeling topcoat, it's the ones
that have been waxed/polished that look like crap. cars with higher
roofs where owners typically can't reach, they may be oxidized, but
magically they don't have a peeling problem.

 

-- For my 2003 Civic in severe conditions, the interval then becomes
5k miles or six months.

-- I would have to see a citation to believe that most people drive in
severe conditions. I think Jim B is right that "normal" is a word that
Honda chose for its manuals with careful consideration.

-- What folks report about their maintenance minders (the ones that
use startups, temperatures, etc. as input for when to tell the driver
an oil change is needed) seems to support longer intervals.

-- One has to drive /mainly/ in one or more of the severe conditions
to justify the shorter interval. E.g. driving less than five miles per
trip or in freezing temperatures, less than 10 miles per trip.

 

You guys must be pretty young. My dad grew up on 1000 mile oil changes &
the rule of thumb was whenever it burned a quart, it was time to change the
oil.

While some automakers (e.g. Honda) are now saying 5,000/10,000 mile oil
change intervals, there are some that are not. Nissan, for example still
says 3750 (Severe) & 7500 (Normal), this from my '08 Altima and my '09 G37.
Their definition of normal also pretty much leaves out everybody.