for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

try to reconcile the following:

1. shorter change intervals keep customers coming back to the dealer

2. the same vehicles sold in europe have nearly double the manufacturer
recommended mileage intervals

3. oil analysis indicates the oil can be used much longer

 

Looks like we found one of the zealots.

 

Go ahead. Point out any foolish thing you want to. It is not as if about
90% of other consumer spending isn't a target for the big waste of money
line. The question is why this particular obsession?

If you want to do that then advocate for getting rid of the automobile
as private transportation.

Doubtful argument. My hunch is people with this obsession pollute the
environment significantly more than those who aren't so obsessed.

That doesn't explain the obsession.

Well the same could be said for any other cosmetic product, but so what?

 

jim beam wrote:

i didn't say that. Black oil is something perverts like you obsess
about.

Dude, you are obsessed with black oil.

Yeah that was the question if some one chose to do that - what
difference would that make to you?

It apparently means alot to you that simply mentioning it gets you so
agitated.

So how does that explain your obsession?

The metal surfaces don't know anything and never will know anything, no
matter what you hallucinate.

So how does that explain your obsession with what other folks do?

 

Some people want to feel superior, or it could be they want
reinforcement of their own beliefs, because they are not sure of those
beliefs.
But maybe when you see the same people saying they don't have to
change their oil until 10000 miles go by, and they don't have to wax
their car, it's a simple case of trying to justify their laziness
and/or penuriousness.
Like, "What, you bathe more than once a month? That's a crazy waste
of precious water and heating fuel. Does no good and costs money."
Could be something like that, but hard to tell without doing a
psychological analysis.
Personally, I don't care how often people bathe, so long as they don't
stink up the place.
Don't care at all how often they change their oil.

--Vic.

 

I think the source of your confusion has been identified. You mistakenly
believe that the color of the oil is indicative of its lubricity and its
level of contaminants.

Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern
detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended
in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but
they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer
than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal
engine parts and would create sludge. If you never changed your oil,
eventually the oil would no longer be able to suspend any more particles
in the oil and sludge would form. Fortunately, by following the
manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your
oil long before the oil has become saturated. Remember, a good oil
should get dirty as it does it's work cleaning out the engine. The
dispersant should stop all the gunk from depositing in the oil pan.

The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing
is to have an oil analysis performed. Since most people don't want to
bother with this, it's acceptable to err heavily on the safe side and
simply follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe
service. There is no benefit in changing the oil earlier than this.
You're not increasing your engine's life by changing your oil every 2000
or 3000 miles versus 5000 miles.

 

No i don't believe anything of the sort. The color of the oil indicates
the color of the oil. The question I ask is why do you care if someone
else prefers not to have a certain color oil?

Actually that is not exactly true. There is a remote possibility that
those particles could become harmful to the engine. For instance if you
are tooling down the interstate and you head gasket lets loose and
suddenly it dumps a bunch antifreeze into your oil. That will very
quickly use up all the dispersant/detergent additives in the oil. That
means the particles that were happily being held in suspension doing no
harm will start to rather quickly precipitate and agglomerates into
larger particles and that can cause harm. Fresh clean oil can absorb
more antifreeze before engine damage occurrs than old black oil can.
Saying extended oil changes are safe is based on the assumption that
the engine is always going to be functioning properly. Keeping the oil
cleaner than it needs to be can be insurance against certain types of
malfunctions such as when excess fuel, antifreeze or dirt get dumped
into the oil unexpectedly. Those may not be likely occurrences, but they
do happen. Also, the older dirt laden oil is much less able to maintain
it's viscosity and shear properties if the engine overheats excessively.
And in this day and age excessively overheating engines is probably the
number one cause of lubrication failures. Blow a radiator hose and the
temps inside an engine can very quickly exceed 250C.

If someone changes their oil often enough so that it doesn't get black
they never have to worry about whether they have reached the point where
the additives can no longer protect the engine from the dirt. For
instance if someone has a half a dozen cars, maybe its just a lot
simpler and safer to change the oil when it starts to get very dark
rather than keeping detailed records for so many vehicles.

But who cares if you happen to change the oil before you absolutely need
to? I mean you probably don't wait to eat until you reach the point
where it adversely affects health. You probably pea a lot more often
than you really have to. Many people don't wait till April 15 to file
their taxes. Doing things before it is absolutely positively necessary
is pretty common human behavior. The question is why is this one
particular behavior the one that gets so many people agitated?

-jim

 

Sorry for jumping in in the middle here, but it appears to me that you're
suggesting that the bad effects of a blown head gasket can be mitigated by
clean oil. That's a huge falacy.

If the head gasket lets go, it won't matter if the oil was changed 10
minutes or 10 months ago. The contamination of the coolant into the oil is
the least of the problem when the head gasket goes.

 

Well I'm sorry but the SAE doesn't share your opinion. There have been a
number of studies on levels of antifreeze contamination on oil and its
effects.

No not really, in terms of immediate consequences contamination of the
oil can be the only real concern. A small amount of antifreeze lost from
the cooling system won't impact on the engine temp and if the coolant
leak is from the water jacket into crankcase then the only short term
consequence at all is the contamination of the oil.

That is not to say you can't create a scenario of head gasket failure
where it doesn't matter how old the oil is. Even if it doesn't matter
most of the time, that misses the point. The point is that no matter how
improbable it may be it is possible to have just the right kind of leak
with just the right amount of leakage that whether the oil is old or
fresh can make a difference. So anyone who tells you there is no
possibility that the fine particles suspended in the oil, that
accumulate with miles, is going to ever cause harm is simply not being
accurate. The best you can say is that it is unlikely they will ever
cause harm.

-jim

 

I hadn't noticed any obsession.

That might be a bit extreme compared with the simple advise of 'don't throw
away oil while it is still perfectly good'.

Do tell, why would people that don't want oil pollution be more likely to
polute?

I hadn't noticed any obsession, but now that you mention the word, I will
say that you do seem a bit obsessed with this issue.

'So what' could be said about 99% of all dialog, right? Maybe the 'advise'
will keep someone from wasting time and money on car wax...and keep them
from harming their car's finish. Sure, it is a 'so what', but why do you
feel the need to respond with another 'so what' complaining/obsessing about
the first 'so what'?

 

I have seen 'severe conditions' described as 'lots of stop and go traffic'.
If that is the definition, then yes, most people drive under severe
conditions.

 

I noticed that you hadn't noticed

How about you recycle it instead of throwing it away.

It doesn't even cross your mind that someone who claiming to not want
oil pollution might be a bit insincere?

What issue? Making light of people who preach nonsense on the internet?
If that is the issue you mean Ok, maybe I did take a little time today
to be obsessed with that. But since Im not one of those who enjoys
changing oil often I get my recreation in other ways.

Or maybe your deluded about the impact of your words.

 

Recycle it? Is that like where the quick oil change centers run it through
a screen and then sell it to new customers?

No, I don't take on face value that people who speak out against pollution
are secretly plotting to pollute more.

Telling people not to waste time/money changing their oil every 3,000 miles
is preaching non-sense?

Posting on usenet is not 'recreation'.

I have no delusions. I am well aware that the vast majority of people are
too stupid to take good advise.

 

Well yes that would be recycling. Not exactly what I was thinking

If reducing oil consumption were the goal then driving less is the
obvious solution. If you were focused on altering your life style so you
produced less pollution, you might get to the point where your driving
only 2000 miles a year and then you wouldn't be preaching 10000 mile oil
changes. Would you? So no i don't think people who preach extended oil
changes are really at all sincere about reducing pollution.

I reckon one can preach nonsense in regard to just about anything

But changing oil at 3000 miles is?

So now you say it does not keep them "from wasting time and money"

 

I believe there are people like that, Vic. I can tell you that
generally, here in a forum where people come to ask for help in how to
do all things maintenance, there are people who want to help.

I myself am both lazy and penurious - but I just spent 3 hours removing
the haze from my headlights, washing my car and sealing it. I only wash
& seal it every 2 weeks now, because it's time and work, and my Honda is
6 years old. I do my own oil changes and minor maintenance, because I
am frugal, and because I need to know it's done right. I change my oil
every 10,000 miles, on all 3 Hondas.

With respect to justifying what I do, all I can say is, **** you,
shitbag. You have a very poor attitude, and clearly aren't here to help
anyone.

With respect to the OP's question, I don't suppose many people really
care how much oil, etc. that you waste - but it is wasteful, and harmful
to the environment. Some care about such things more than others; I
haven't changed the antifreeze in my 03 yet, because I haven't found a
good way to dispose of the old fluid, and I would not pour it out. But
I don't really care what you do.

Some folks try to share their experience and knowledge. Surely,
sometimes it's for self-aggrandizement. Here, somewhat less so - it's
too much effort.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

Looks like you've defined what camp you're in.
And told anybody who may or may not agree with you "**** you,
shitbag."
Sounds reasonable to me.
Oh, and thanks for all your help. You are one helpful guy.
Carry on.

--Vic

 

Your entire reply is very difficult to understand, is filled with negatives
stacked upon negatives, and appears to my faulty brain to be pretty much
ill-thought-out gibberish.

Should that head gasket let go in juuust the right way, in juuust the right
place, and you're looking at...
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/22re_sludge.jpg>
I'm not sure the age of the oil makes much difference here.

 

Question for you: What's a "chemical"?

 

what's a dictionary?

 

Or pull the coil wire....