for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

I would think that anyone living in a major city with a 45+ minute style
commute qualifies...and yes, that is a significant number of drivers. Of
course, 'lots of stop and go' is open to interpretation and maybe the
manufacturers intends for it to mean only cars that are driven for 8+ hours
per day under those conditions...but should the end user assume that is what
they meant or err on the side of caution if they have a daily rush-hour
commute?

Phoenix, Las Vegas, Los Angeles...millions of drivers deal with that 90+
temperature for months at a time.
Entire states like Wyoming and Wisconsin deal with temperatures
'consistently' below freezing for months at a time.

 

I used to have a 65-70 min commute. However, it didn't affect my
mileage. I took the train. ;-)

You can have 70 min commute, if you live far away, with mainly fast
moving highways, even into NYC (I knew one teacher with about a 75-min
commute from PA right into Harlem).

 

Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston, El Paso, San Antonio & Austin. Many millions
of Texans driving in the heat.

It wasn't long ago that we went over 30 days in a row without getting
below 100 during the day and never getting below 80 at night. The car I
was driving at the time has no A/C. That was tough.

I will never state how often I change my oil, that is now strictly
classified information. ;-)

Pat

 

On that same 2.7, it's not the valve guides per-se - it's the valve stem
seals that get hard and brittle typically at 105 to 125k miles. I
replaced mine along with timing chain, water pump, and oil pump (they
increased the capacity of the oil pump a year or so after mine was
built) at 207k miles - didn't touch the heads other than the stem seals.
No more smoke, no more oil usage (until probably 350k miles.

The valve and springs are recessed down into the head, and the selas
can't take the heat (even though they are viton). Not really an oil
related failure, but sludge certainly would be.

 

I wouldn't consider them experts if they are unaware of some particular
engines that will absolutely sludge up with 5000+ mile change intervals.
It's one thing to say that *on* *most* vehicles and *under* *most*
*conditions*, 3000 mile oil change intervals are not necessary. But to
tell people that 3000 mile oil change intervals are a waste with no
qualification is gross malpractice - I would not consider a person
giving such advice an expert..

 

And the more important it is to check behind whoever you pay to do them
to make sure they actually do them. I've personally seen too many
examples of where that was the case. Imagine being on a 5000 mile
change interval and two changes are faked.

 

Their proof did not consider that the oil change would only be billed
and not actually done - but that is a different problem. It also
ignores certain engines that are less tolerant of the longer change
intervals.

 

I ignore the "premium" category as mostly fluff that probably serves the
purpose you suggest (dealer profit), but they have changed the names of the
other two in the "Service and Maintenance Guide" for '08 & '09. Now there
is "Premium Schedule", Schedule 1 and Schedule 2. It still says you don't
have to follow the Premium schedule to maintain the warranty, but Schedule 2
(what used to be called "Normal") has this disclaimer: "Generally, Schedule
2 applies only to highway driving in temperate conditions."

 

Here in Texas, the temp goes above 90 sometime in May and stays there until
October. That pretty much kills normal schedule here, at least in the
summer.

I think its interesting that Honda puts in the 90 degree clause, where
Nissan focuses on dust and freezing temps, and only talks about hot in terms
of stop-and-go driving in hot weather.

 

My independent mechanic claims he sees many BMWs with oil-related
excessive wear issues. The BMW owners who change their oil more
frequently than 15K miles do not see the same issues. Or so he claims.
But he does

Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well
publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited
by anyone who changed their own oil.

 

You have joggle my old farts memory.... we get a lot of 6.0 and 6.4 diesel
engines through our shop (no surprise since we ARE a Ford dealer) that have
had aftermarket oil filters installed. Jiffy Lube will happily dispose of
your old filter cap since the aftermarket filter comes with it's own (ill
fitting, leaking) cap.

Here in Canada, that new oil filter cap (the one that will cure your oil
leak) is about $90 CAD (not including the price of the new oil filter).

Choosing a mechanic is like choosing a doctor... find one that you can
easily get along with... find one that is brutally honest... Be aware that
he may make the odd mistake and he will fix that mistake without hesitation.
Many of my customers have been coming to me for 30 years or more....

Quicky oil changes by inexperienced minimum wage earners shouldn't be a
viable option in anyones playbook... FWIW - I am paranoid to the point that
I'm reluctant to eat in a fast food joint where I can't watch my meal from
beginning to end... (Did anyone see that Gordon Ramsay show where the fast
food guy picked a piece of food up off the floor and tossed it back in the
deep frier? Yummmmm!!!)

 

I didn't specify the 2.7, or even Chrysler, as the smolers.

Lots of Nissan Altimas, Hyundai Elantras, the odd Tercel, Chevy
Cavaliers etc thrown into the mix as well.

 

I Agree, Bill.

MOST of my miles go on about 10KM (6 miles) at a time.
Most of the miles on my wife's car go on abot 3Km at a time. Both cars
actually get onto the highway an average of once every 6 weeks ( for
anything from 20 to a few hundred KM at a time). Much of the short
distance driving is in urban gridlock, and the humidity here in the
inter-lakes region of central Ontario can be stifling. We also still
have some gravel roads, as well as dusty construction areas.
On the odd highway trips either vehicle makes, the Hwy 401 moves at
roughly 125 Kph, and the vehicles are often well loaded.
4 adults and luggage to the east coast in a PT cruiser means the 2.4
is working pretty good - and the 2.5 V6 in the mystique is not
"lightly loaded" under those same highway conditions either.

Then the other half of the year, when the car gets virtually NO
highway driving, we have the other extremes - with very variable
weather , including some extreme cold.

The PT runs synthetic oil - has from the day it was new, 99000KM
before I bought it. The last 3 years before I bought it, it had never
left town. Oil was changed every 6000 to 8000 miles - minimum 3 times
a year.
The trip to the east coast was the longest (mileage) and shortest
(time) change interval since I bought the car at about 6000 km and 6
weeks.

The Mystique is 14 years old now, running conventonal oil ( but NOT
5W20) and has averaged under 10,000 km per year.
At one oil change per year (more than many are recommending) I'm
sure it would be well sludged by now. Going with about 3 changes a
year over the last 9 years it has stayed nice and clean - and barring
any serious non-engine related problems I expect it to go another 4 or
5 years.

If I was driving those same cars to, say London and back on a daily
basis, with trips to a muskoka cottage on the weekends, putting on
2000 - 2500 Km a week, I'd likely be pretty satisfied with anywhere
from 8000 to 12000 Km on a change - which would be about 2 months
give or take per change.

Not all cars or conditions are created equal.

 

And /or the "bulk" oil used is inferior.
Or the oil is changed and the filter is just given a "rag job"

 

And you ignore that advice at your peril on an Altima or Maxima.

Quite a few in the scrap-yard around here with mint bodies because the
cost of needed engine repairs equals or excedes the resale value of
the car in running condition.

 

The article linked above is also a helpful read. I noticed the part
that says "Depending on driving conditions, we expect oil change
intervals could be approximately:

Up to 10,000 miles Normal commuting with highway driving
5000 to 7500 miles Trailer tow/high load driving
3000 to 5000 miles Short trip usage, extreme cold or hot
temperature"

The fact that two very different different car manufacturers (Honda
and Ford) are saying a 10k mile interval is fine for many speaks
volumes, IMO.

 

I agee.
I still have a lot of friends wrenching for a living. (I've given
it up) - and a friend at a Chrysler dealer said he's never seen a
2.7 sludged up or damaged that had the oil changed at least 4 times
a year or every 6000 km or lesss. Not a single one.

Also at the Toyota dealer where I was service manager for 10 years.
According to the guys still working there.
Not a single coked up engine on a car maintained according to the
"severe" schedule. NOT ONE.

 

Your reading comprehension is even lower than "Vic's", apparently.

I don't have a belief system with respect to my cars. I use the actual
knowledge of the people who build and understand them, and the people
who have bothered to examine their oil to obtain real-world information
on how often they should change it. You should try it. That said, I
don't particularly care what you do. Further, if you look back up the
chain of posts, you will notice that I did not participate. "Vic" was
not responded to, nor addressing, me.

I can seriously believe that it doesn't matter what anyone says to you;
your opinion is apparently based on some sort of religion or, as you put
it, 'belief system'. Facts apparently don't enter into the matter. Enjoy!

Lady, it leaves you as someone who changes their oil every 8000 miles.
Ask your high priest, or whatever freaky equivalent you use, about where
it leaves you spiritually. I was obviously right about you being a
troll, and wrong to respond to you as if you might not be. My fault, I
suppose. I fight cynicism every day, although your kind makes it more
difficult all the time.

This is usenet, so I understand you can do and say whatever you want.
That stated, I suggest that you go troll somewhere else, and shut the
hell up about your religion.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

Apparently no where from which you would accept it.

Personally, I use the intarwebs to find out things other people know
about that I don't know about.

No, that doesn't mean I accept whatever someone puts on a page.

I understand nothing anyone says will sway you; if you send your own oil
off for analysis, you won't accept the results either. I don't know
what to tell you. The data is out6 there (I would start at
bobistheoilguy), but no one can (or even wants to) make you understand
or accept it.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen