Ford car production ain't what it used to be

You mean like a current Explorer or Expedition with IRS? The shocks are in a
unit with the coil springs and don't hang down at all. What do you call that
big round thing hanging down in the center of a Infiniti Pathfinder or is it
a Nissan QX4......

Ed

 

It's called Suspension.

 

Yup. Contract demand 479799025B.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Lifetime member; Vast Right Wing Conspiricy
Web Site: www.destarr.com
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Well Ford is going to be #3 in US sales as of 2007 and that isn't my
opinion, it's a fact you can take to the bank. As for Toyota beating
Chevy in 2007, that is a toss-up right now.

So these two pickups are the best sellers, so what? That will be
scant consolation if Ford and GM go under. It is profit that counts
at the end of the day. Either Toyota or Honda could afford to buy
both GM and Ford just to put them out of their misery.

 

True but... Toyota's basis (what they sold in November 2006) was a
record month, as was November 2007. Ford is up 0.6% over being in the
toilet. Toyota outsold Ford in November by 15,000.

If you look at the year rather than just one month, Toyota is up 4%
and Ford is down 12% versus 2006.

Good. I am glad to see any of these stupid trucks fail in the
marketplace. Maybe it will influence them and the other automakers to
build more sensible vehicles. I would guess that 90% of the pickups I
see (admittedly it is an urban environment) are being used for jobs
that could be better served by a subcompact.

I think $3 gas is doing a lot of good.

 

Fact is something already happened. Calling your own prediction as fact?
No it aint no fact, I'm afraid you will be disappointed, because what
already happened may not repeat itself. Because Ford moves too slow, the
Chinese carmakers will beat all of you up again, with cheaper and good gas
cars. Go to Habor Freight, and Walmat and enlighten yourself. The Chinese
investors now are buying American banks. I used to hear you called the
Chinese hyping, man we're 180 degree direction!! Sad sad... I am poorer
and poorer with you, make no mistake, I am trying to wake you up.

 

Whall, you see part of the problem is that most of the auto pundits out
there,
like the people that write the reviews in Car and Driver and such, have not
reconciled to the fact that a basic truck is extremely utilitaritian and
functional.
You can haul plywood, a motorcycle, a couch, move across town, you name
it. If you take the tailgate off of it or put on a tonneau, it becomes a
fairly
fuel efficient single-passenger commuting vehicle - not as good as a sedan
of
course, but if you don't have to commute a great deal, so what.

There's enough of the new car buying public that recognize this that light
and
mid sized trucks are always going to sell well in the US.

Personally I can't stand the look of the things - any pickup truck after
1955
looks like a Mexican/white trailer trashmobile in my book - and I'll never
be
caught dead owning one. I do my hauling with a trailer. But I see the
point
that dealing with hauling out a utility trailer from the shed and linking it
up takes
a lot more time than just walking out to the street and tossing whatever
piece
of crap you need to haul into the truck bed then driving off.

New car buyers generally either buy for image reasons (ie: Prius) or for
functionality. Trucks are extremely functional, it's no wonder they are as
popular as they are. Most of the auto pundits out there are so focused
on the image thing they have lost touch with the functionality end of it.

Ted

 

Ford is too far behind now to catch up. Baring a miracle which isn't
going to happen, Toyota will outsell Ford in the US in 2007. It's a
done deal.

So far that hasn't happened. In fact they haven't sold a single car
here yet. Regardless of what the Chinese do, Ford is #3 and dropping.

Familiar with both of these retailers. OK if you need something
cheap. I wouldn't use Harbor Freight tools to work on my go kart.

Hell, they are buying America thanks to Bush's deficit financing of
the disaster in Iraq.

Haven't a clue what you are talking about. If you are referring to
something I said on Usenet, please provide a Google Groups link.

I am not poor.

 

Pickups get better mileage with the tailgate up, and no cover. The bed
creates a vortex behind the cab that maximizes the aerodynamics. With no
tailgate and/or a cover, the vortex cannot form.

---JRE---

 

Consumer reports debunked that several years ago. They tested a number of
different pickups with and without tailgates. The results depended on the
truck. Some did better with the tailgates in place, some with them removed.
Its not a given that removing the tailgate improves mileage.

 

From CR Online:

Truck tailgate
Q. My neighbor told me to remove the tailgate of my truck for better
mileage. What is your take on this matter?
A. Several years back, CR said that lowering or removing the tailgate gate
made only a marginal difference in gas mileage and in most cases simply does
not improve mileage. We are still sticking with that report. Also, the
tailgate is part of the structure of the vehicle and when removed, makes the
bed of the truck weaker.

You might aslo want to review:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030310154714/mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~ehaffner/base.jpg
http://web.archive.org/web/20030414234420/mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~ehaffner/Net.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20030414232437/mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~ehaffner/remove_gate.htm

 

few people know that... i'm impressed.

 

Image reasons in a prius?

right

 

Apparently you missed the Prius commercial where the guy buys one
to be able to get fucked by the girl who regularly attends the "Save the
Whales" conventions.

There's all kinds of images out there. The Prius owners are no different
than the 50 year accountants who run out and buy Harleys and black
leather jackets with fringe. Just because both are equally silly doesen't
mean they don't exist.

Ted

 

Best way to improve mileage when you own a pickup: sell the friggin
thing unless you really _need_ a truck and buy a car instead.

 

It'd be interesting for them to do it with newer trucks, which are more
aerodynamic than trucks from "several years ago". While pickups aren't
really sold for their fuel efficiency, the better aerodynamics contribute to
increased towing capacity and acceleration - things trucks are sold for.

Perhaps if I phrase it this way: pickup trucks are designed to produce less
drag with the tailgate up and no cover. That's how they're wind tunnel
tested, and if you watch one of those tests, it's pretty easy to see the
vortex and resulting slipstream. All things being equal, less drag usually
means better mileage.

In reality, it probably has more to do with speed than anything. At highway
speeds, you're probably better off with the tailgate up so the
vortex/slipstream can form. At slower speeds, it's less likely a vortex
will form, so you're probably better off with the tailgate down.

The point being that the OP's assertion that taking the tailgate off or
putting a cover on would increase your mileage is more or less a myth.

Speaking of, I'll see your CR and raise you a Mythbusters.

---JRE---

 

You have any illustrations of this alleged vortex? I'm having some
difficulty visualizing how a deep bed interrupting airflow can produce
less drag than a smooth surface cover from an engineering point of
view. I could see it having weight/force distribution advantages, but
from a drag viewpoint, it doesn't seem to make logical sense.

 

Go check the back episodes of Mythbusters, they did an episode on that.
Tailgate up produces less drag than tailgate down. They even did a
miniature model test in water and used oatmeal flakes to show the pattern.

Charles the Curmudgeon

 

Throw some tissue in the back and go for a ride. On many trucks, the
tissues will move in a circular fashion, forward along the floor, up the
front wall, backwards in mid-air, and back down to the floor. At the
right speeds, the debris will continue around and around.

I've seen it with cans, paper, leaves, etc...

 

Drive around in a pickup with a few dry leaves in the bed. Notice that,
while some fly away, many blow upward behind the cab then fall back to the
bed towards the back, even at highway speeds.

The thing to remember is that the air caught by the tailgate has to go
somewhere. Since it can't go upward due the additional air being caught by
the tailgate, it goes down, then towards the front of the bed, then up the
back of the cab and back into the bottom of the main airflow... where much
of it is caught by the tailgate again. This is called a "locked vortex" and
it essentially creates a differential pressure zone within the bed that the
main airflow rides upon as it goes over the bed.

---JRE---