Fuel economy loss

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by nylore, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. nylore

    nylore Guest

    I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
    city.
    Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
    Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
    My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
    I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
    power and then again at 3100 rpm.
    As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
    would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
    to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
    me.

    Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
    I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
    000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.

    Thanks for any help,

    Brian
     
    nylore, Aug 21, 2007
    #1
  2. nylore

    Elle Guest

    See the tips and discussion at
    http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html
     
    Elle, Aug 22, 2007
    #2
  3. nylore

    highkm Guest

    Well, there are many factors.
    1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
    higher KM.
    - when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
    rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
    Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
    up.
    2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
    switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
    hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
    upshift

    I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
    problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
    injectors etc.

    Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
    mechanical noises?

    Dan.
     
    highkm, Aug 22, 2007
    #3
  4. nylore

    Nylore Guest

    First off thanks for the post Dan,

    Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.

    The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
    humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
    driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
    and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
    temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.

    Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
    cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
    injection systems?
     
    Nylore, Aug 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Compression tests are normally done when the engine is cold.

    I did a test on my 98 civic (not a vtec) about a year ago, It had 250000kms
    on it. I got 190lbs of compression (+/- 4-6 lbs) on all cylinders. That is
    indeed the factory compression.

    However, to get a better picture of the condition of the rings, how well they
    are sealed, as well as the valves and how well they are sealed, you need to
    do a leakdown test. Any competent honda mechanic should be able to help you
    with this. Then you can determine whether the problems you are having are
    valve related or cylinder/piston related.

    Its a special tool that you plug into the spark plug hole on a cylinder with
    both valves closed. You then run compressed air through the tool, and it has
    a scale on it to tell if the level of leakage is acceptable (using Red-Yellow-
    Green criteria with an actually CFM rating to quantify the level of leakage).
    Also, you can tell where the leakage is occuring... if the air is leaking out
    of the intake, it means your intake valves are not seated properly. Out of
    the exhaust means exhaust valves. Anywhere else, probably means piston rings.


    I did perform this test on my 93 Nissan Altima before I bought it from my
    brother. It leaked like a sieve through the intake, and the highest
    compression I could get out of any cylinder was about 85lbs. Kinda funny too,
    because the car actually seemed to be running quite well. I poured some
    Lucus Oil Upper cylinder cleaner into the fuel and drove the *(&^ out of it
    for about a week, and performed the same test. Now I have 160lb compression.

    I have not performed the leakdown test on my civic as yet.

    So you can try the Lucas Oil stuff (available at your local canadian tire or
    partsource, I assume you are in Canada if you are talking KMs), or try to
    find Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner. Many people on this group have
    had great success with that product.

    As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
    fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
    too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
    difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)

    t
     
    loewent via CarKB.com, Aug 22, 2007
    #5
  6. nylore

    gigelus2k3 Guest

    This mileage seems quite low for the 98 Civic with manual tranny (it
    translates to about 28-29 MPG). Was it that bad when there were fewer
    km's on it?

    Serban
     
    gigelus2k3, Aug 22, 2007
    #6
  7. nope, was much better. My wife drives it with a heavy foot though.
     
    loewent via CarKB.com, Aug 22, 2007
    #7
  8. nylore

    Nylore Guest

    Thanks for the help folks.
    I am going to try the Lucas oil upper cylinder cleaner then do a oil
    change and put in a new PCV valve at the same time.
    Hope that fixes it and if it doesn't I will go with some of the other
    solutions. Such as checking the compression, etc.
     
    Nylore, Aug 23, 2007
    #8
  9. nylore

    highkm Guest

    Another relatively cheap thing to try if you're not already doing it
    is to switch from 5w20 to 0w30. It should be synthetic as rings seal /
    work better with synthetic due to the uniformity of synthetic
    molecules. I have a 2003 Accord (4 cyl) with just under 320,000Km and
    I use Amsoil 0w30 from 44,000Km. The engine is not maintained by any
    Honda / mechanics shops. The reason I switched from 5w20 to 0w30 is as
    follows and I will mention only the ones that may relate to your
    dissatisfaction. The main reaon to switch for me was cylinder assembly
    wear and tear. No matter how often you change your 5w20 honda motor
    oil, the viscosity at the optimum operating temperature is
    approximately 10% less than with 0w30. Since I am a little more
    heavier footed than most drivers it means that the internal cylinder
    moving parts could on occasion exceed the temperature range and enter
    in the "danger" zone for the 5w20 oil i.e. viscosity below 7 or even 6
    (i.e. it is about 9 for 5w20 Honda oil at normal operating car
    condition i.e. hwy cruising between 90-100Km/hr). So the film becomes
    very thin until the water cools down the system, and eventually the
    viscosity increases back to 9. With 0w30 you have that extra viscosity
    capability at higher internal temperature. The end result is reduced
    engine wear when you are pushing the engine. I change the oil and
    filter every 32,000Km. Prior to oil change I drive the car with higher
    RPM on occasion (5-6k RPM) to burn carbon / film etc. if any is there
    (most likely nothing there). I then drain and fill it with 5w30
    Autolab (cause it is cheap) fresh oil and run the engine for about ten
    minutes to wash it. I drain it and refil with synthetic. Does all this
    work well? I have done this on every car I've had since mid seventies
    on same oil (Amsoil. It doesn't have to be Amsoil - key here is
    synthetic). I am a bit surprised at the gas milage that you're
    getting. At 320,000Km Accord at 100Km/h I use between 5.8 and 5.9 l of
    gas per 100 kilomteres i.e. over 1000Km per tank (I only do hwy
    driving). If you eventually perform a compression test and fiind out
    that compression is low due to rings, you may try 0w40 synthetic. that
    has even better sealing properties at normal and higher engine working
    temperature. The negative effects of higher viscosity oil at normal
    operating temperature is higher fuel consumption.

    Good luck.

    Dan
     
    highkm, Aug 23, 2007
    #9
  10. On Civics the standard oil is 5w30, not 5w20.

    To be honest, i have neglected the civic for the last 2 years at least. I
    will probably do some of the same as the OP, new PCV from Honda, check timing.
    I think I'll do a brake check too, perhaps one of them is binding and causing
    my mileage to drop...

    Couple other things too, a bolt on my valve cover is busted, need to fix that.
    .. its just sitting in there with some RTV sealant around it to prevent crap
    from getting in. Snapped bolt on distributor cap. Not sure if that will
    affect anything. Check all idler pulleys and accessories.

    I was kinda hoping to wait to do this at the next Timing belt change (coming
    up next summer), but i have some time now, so it's proabbly a good idea.

    t
     
    loewent via CarKB.com, Aug 23, 2007
    #10
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.