GM admits it flucked up big time

No, I merely attempted to highlight GM's own admission that they
fucked up big time, repeatedly, for years. My post was an attempt to
correct the thread and the posters which blame the foreign
manufacturers for GM's woes. GM has admitted how much they screwed up
- too bad you can't too.

Are they bankrupt? Are they asking for billions in US taxpayer money?
I'm sure you'd be surprised to learn that when Congress voted $25b in
low interest loans earlier this year (part of they US Budget) to any
US based manufacturer to engage in more modern design/production, GM,
Ford, and Chrysler all put in for a slice of the pie. Toyota and
Nissan, both eligible with US plants, declined to apply for the loans.

Now you're just spouting bigoted nonsense.

Your pre-1970's American bias is showing. You're perfect for a GM
management job.

Certain Americans believe their cars have to big to be worthwhile.
Fortunately, most have realized that trucks are best for those that
actually need a truck and SUV's are equally unnecessary and
impractical for most drivers and/or families. Some still don't get it
- they are supporting that small market niche.

The market is not for one specific vehicle type. The foreign
manufacturers are attempting to enter multiple market segments.
They've done it rather successfully.

Not anymore. Check the stats. Regardless - GM and Ford are still going
broke.

Actually, it's rather unfortunate that the taxpayers don't get a say
in the bailouts. You're not in tune enough to recognize the injustice
in that.

I only speak for me.

Whatever. The Japanese have built a reputation so strong that people
love their cars even when they are being repaired. GM was not good
enough to build that kind of brand loyalty.

That's a small percentage of Americans. If most Americans were buying
those vehicles, GM would be making money. They aren't. You can "own" a
small niche in a larger market but if you don't own more of the larger
market then you'd need to be a small, tight, low overhead operation
that addresses just that segment. GM is a very large operation, with
major overhead, attempting to address all market segments and losing
in all the others.

 

I can fully admit when GM screws up. And you were Trolling. If I were to
spend weeks bashing GM in the GM group, then post an article about how much
money Toyota is losing, in the Toyota group, that would be trolling. Just
like you did.

Nope. The Japanese (mainly Toyota) can make a recall seem like a blessing.
They are liars.

The two top selling vehicles in the US are a Ford and a Chevy, both are
trucks, and neither are small.

Bullshit. American's drive what the want too. Who the hell are you to tell
me or anyone else they don't need a truck, or SUV? You also can't seem to
understand that the two best selling vehicles in the US are TRUCKS. A Ford
and a Chevy. That seems to burn you very very badly. Get over it. And I
wouldn't call the top two selling vehicles a "small market niche".

You are truly amusing. Toyota has been trying to get into the truck and SUV
market for years. Unfortunately for them, the death trap they call Tundra
isn't selling, and the FJ Cruiser is one of the worst selling vehicles in
the US, not to mention being as ugly as sin.

You are an idiot. The Ford F-150 has been the best selling vehicle for 27
years, and it is this year as well. The Chevy Silverado is also the number
2 selling vehicle. Why can't you accept the facts?

The taxpayers didn't get a say in the 700 billion that was sent to the
banks, but I see a hell of a lot more bitching about the 20 billion sent to
GM.

And you aren't in tune enough to realize that GM and Ford make good
vehicles, are the number's 1 and 2 sellers, and there bankruptcy would ruin
the country.

I should hope so.

And what does that say about the Japanese car buyers? Not only will they
pay more for a Jap car, they will also still be happy while it is in for
repairs. Basically, they ain't that bright.

Read a damned magazine. Toyota get's praised for recalling Tundra's for axl
shafts, but get royally pissed at GM when they recall a cup holder.

What the hell are you talking about? We are talking vehicle sales. Toyota
is way behind Ford's F150 and GM's Silverado. Get that through your head,
and you won't seem like such a moron.

Do you have a functioning brain? Americans who are purchasing vehicles are
purchasing more Ford and GM trucks then any other vehicle. Apparently that
is very difficult for you to comprehend.

Ugh. You manage to write so much, while actually saying so little.

 

Most people posting in the group tell stories about GM and how badly
they treat their customers etc.

All you do is try to attack other posters.

 

If you do a search you will see Toyota dealerships are far from the top in
dealer service

Most people posting in the group tell stories about GM and how badly
they treat their customers etc.

All you do is try to attack other posters.

 

Who said anything about dealerships or dealer service?

 

If you do a search you will discover all vehicle manufactures warrant their
vehicles to their DEALERSHIPS, not the purchaser.

 

I don't know where you got that idea, which is patently false.

 

Ya right! READ you warranty manual or try taking YOUR car to an
independent shop or a different brand dealership for warranty service, if
that is what you believe LOL

 

Warranties for any product are provided by the manufacturer or an authorized
repair station. That includes vacuum cleaners, TV's, computers, etc.

I don't know where you got the idea that independent repair shop for any
product will repair something under warranty unless they are an authorized
repair station.

 

If you believe that then take you car Toyota to the Maytag repairman. LOL

 

Incorrect. Here's a link. Please feel free to counter with other facts
if you have some available:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080604-Honda-Civic-Now-America-s-Best-Selling-Vehicle/

http://tinyurl.com/42xpz3

I'm not telling you what you should drive. Drive anything you want.
I'm just pointing out the stupidity of many Americans in selecting a
vehicle. Selecting a truck or SUV when you don't have any need for one
is a pretty dumb idea.

First, see the link above. Second, I don't really care what a bunch of
little boys who never grew up drive.

You still don't seem to be able to grasp the concept here: In business
you have finite resources. You decide where to invest them in terms of
development, products, marketing, etc. Choosing NOT to diversify your
product line and investing all your resources in a very small part of
the overall market (i.e. a niche) can result in short term profit at
the expense of long term survival. This ins't rocket science, it's
Business 101. You can't see to grasp that (but then again, neither did
GM, so you DO make good company).

Because Toyota is smart enough to know that you have to diversify.
Don't worry about them too much, they'll get it right as they mature
the product.

See the link above. Please respond with actual facts. Regardless - Gm
still has a core problem. Having the "best selling vehicle" won't
insure the success of any auto company.

Good. The more people that protest corporate welfare, the better.

So you say. A lot of economists argue the other side. There's no
question that bankruptcy would give them a better chance to
restructure and rid themselves of some significant business burdens.

Most people ain't that bright. But, the Jap's have built brand
loyalty. Gm didn't want to build quality and didn't care about
loyalty.

I have customers too. Sometimes I make mistakes, or the people I
contract with for them make mistakes. My customers stick with me,
because I've built loyalty with them. They know I'm sincere, and that
I am working diligently to give them the best possible service. See
how that works?

That's not proof. It's "pull it out of your butt" statistics.

What you seem to have difficulty grasping is that manufacturing two
vehicles that sell well will not ensure profitability for GM and Ford.
I could have 100% of the buggy whip market and I still won't be able
to pay the mortgage.

 

Can you take a Maytag to a Toyota Dealer to get it repaired under warranty?
You are way out in left field on this one.

A manufacturer warranty offered to a consumer does not obligate the
manufacturer to allow anyone to fix it. But you can take a Toyota under
warranty to any Toyota dealer and get it repaired.

 

You are missing the point the auto manufacturers warrant the vehicle to the
DEALERSHIPS, not the purchaser.

READ your warranty policy manual!!!

 

Yes, I got hit in the face with that with my first Toyota.

I was in a job that kept moving me, and at each service interval I was in a
different community with a different dealer. Each one wanted me to take it
back to where I bought it to have it serviced, even the regular routine
maintenance. But 'tis true, all of them were also GM dealers. And driving
it back to where I bought it wasn't possible at that time with the job I had
then. But this was back in 1979-1981.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon.

 

I am not missing the point because you are wrong. There may be a warranty to
the dealer (because the dealer purchases the car from the manufacturer), but
there is also a warranty to the end consumer (assuming the car is sold as a
new vehicle).

 

That is not the case anymore, at least not for Toyota or Honda. You can take
it to any authorized dealer for warranty repairs. Of course, they can give
regular customers some priority in scheduling if it is not unreasonable. The
dealer has the right to refuse non-warranty work if they really want to, but
unless they are under-staffed, they normally will not refuse work. Usually,
if any business continuously has more customers than they can handle, they
just raise their prices until an equilibrium is achieved.

If a dealer gives you a hard time about warranty repairs, I would call the
Toyota Motor immediately and get them to bust the balls of the dealership.

 

stveyes

 

That was in JUNE.
Here is the link that shows how short lived the Civic's accomplishment
lasted (a month):
http://trucktrend.automotive.com/85121/163-news080811-ford-f150-reclaims-top-selling-vehicle-title-in-july-2008/index.html

And here is a link for 2008 in general:
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1000/best-and-worst-selling-cars
and:
http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2008/12/03/best-car-sales-forbeslife-cx_jm_1203cars_slide_11.html?thisSpeed=15000

Perhaps it is to you, but not to everyone. I have a Bonneville, and a
Tahoe, and I love both of them. I drive whichever one I feel like it at the
time. The Bonneville looks good, and goes fast (getting awesome MPG while
doing it), and the Tahoe is convenient for pulling other people out of snow
covered ditches.

First, your link above is severely outdated. Second, I can see your
jealously. Let me guess, you are stuck in a 1992 Civic, and can't stand it,
right? Just because you can't handle a truck, doesn't mean others can't.

GM has a very vast array of vehicles, from small, to medium, to large.

Mature the product? The Tundra is a death trap. It needs to be taken off
the roads, and totally redesigned. Perhaps Toyo can ask Ford or GM for some
help...

I did respond with facts. Just because you were too lazy to look them up,
doesn't mean they aren't true.

So, you have no problem that the banks were *given* 700 billion, but a loan
to GM, and Chrysler for 20 billion makes your blood boil? You are truly an
idiot. Enjoy your Jap crap, while it lasts.

I speak in facts. You speak in bullshit.

The Japs can also make a very dangerous recall seem like a blessing. They
are liars.

Good for you. The convenience store business, is quite difficult.

If you know half as much about the Auto world as you claim to, you would
know that Toyota does get praised for recalling a death trap, while GM get's
pissed on for recalling something simple.

5 of the top 10 selling vehicles for 2008 are Domestic. They are here to
stay...Get over it.

 

The rankings are outdated, and besides, lasted exactly one month.

The F-150 regained its long lasting top spot the next month, and I
believe, the Silverado moved back into the # two spot the following
month, where both stayed for the rest of 08, December sales pending.


That certainly does not represent a "trend" that "experts" are
protraying, a "movement into smaller, greener,more fuel-efficient
vehicles" that the public is being force-fed, ad naseum.

Whole lot of Americans drive what they want, as oppossed to what they
"need". If they can afford to do so, it is a really good thing.
Americas' "wants" is usually the driving forces in economic boom
times.

I seem to have a very good grip on this. The way most "economic
experts" claim the road to recovery for the big three is to move AWAY
from making and selling profitable vechicles (which also happen to be
among the BEST sellers), and make more vechicles that a good number of
people dont want, and, BTW, lose money for the company.


Make no mistake, that is what a lot of people, including the ones who
will ultimatetly have the gun to the auto manufacturers; the
Government, is demanding.


Have yet to hear anyone say to the big three, "Boys, keep selling the
hell out of your trucks and large cars, and let's all get togethere to
figure out a way to help make your smaller cars profitable."

Yes. They along with Honda and Nissan, have diversified into making
more and more large vechicles, because they know that is what sells.
Exactly three of the top ten sellers in the US last year were
subcompacts. Three of the top ten sellers were full size pickups,
including numbers one and two. The remaining four cars in the top ten
were middle size vehicles. By NO means are the Japanese "getting
smaller"

I agree that a structured bankruptcy would be far better than letting
our Government dictate the kinds of cars Americans drive, which will
ultimatly happen with these bailouts.

 

Don't waste your breath 80knight - he's just another one of the crowd that
believes that if he and his crowd say it long enough and often enough, it
will become true - even when "it" is pure bullshit. They get all hyped up
over the fad and fashion of what the in-crowd is hyping on any given day,
and that becomes their mantra. If guys like this had any idea at all what
makes a good car, besides what the Consumer Reports oriented opinion crowd
crows about, they'd be a lot more quiet then they are. As it is, they
simply make asses of themselves.