GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants

If you read my post I did not say it was any business of the governments,
and in fact I don't think it should be. However, the fact remains, that exec
salaries are out of line with the competition. I know that sounds like a
liberal rant, but in this case it is just the facts. The board should clean
house and the stockholders should vote with their wallets.

 

That's the company's problem. It's not your problem, nor mine. Companies
go out of business every day, for many different reasons. Welcome to
America, and the free enterprise system.

Sometimes.

 

the BOD of many companies is like a elite club;they often serve on several
companies BODs,and I think they select who can be elected to the BODs.(the
choices) So,the shareholders don't really get a lot of say in the
matter,and the execs get to give each other huge salaries and
bonuses,without regard to actual exec performance as shown by stock price
and ROI.

It's seems like a vicious circle.

But the fact remains that many people(socialists) DO think the gov't should
step in and cap exec salaries.

 

RE: See Dr. Deming and why the Japanese whooped our asses in producing
quality cars (and other goods) leading to *long term* success of the
company and their economy. Most people were amused at the
macroeconomic driven view that people like Deming took (and others
still spout) but look at the benefits now vis-a-vis the US economy.
You don't even want to read what folks like this are writing about the
current US economy and direction.

GM has no one to blame but themselves. Continuously. Repeatedly. Over
and over again. The writing was on the wall in the 70's and they still
haven't taken notice.

The only good news in it for the US is that the Japanese discovered
that their primary cost issue was distribution. So now, most Jap cars
are made in the USA. In effect, the Japanese are now US car companies.
And, contrary to what your friends will tell you at the water cooler,
the majority of the money they take in is spent here, not back in
Japan. See those funky economists for more of that.

 

There were several reasons for this. Protectionism and the challenge by
the big 3 for the Japanese manufacturers to have U.S. factories.
Protection against currency fluctuation, given the strong Yen.
Transportation costs. The ability to market the vehicles with references
to the U.S. factories and jobs. It worked out pretty well for them.

 

Um, do you know what *PLONK!* means?

It means he realizes your real name is Walking Eagle* and has added you to
his round file. As in, your messages will be deleted by his newsreader.








*Walking Eagle...too full of shit to fly...

 

What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars the
same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese
cars, look at the CAFE lists. GM for example, offers more car that get 30
MPG or more than does ANY import brand.



Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer, that
get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars, but they
are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their larger cars

 

Really? For every single catagory of cars (2 seater, Minicompact,
Subcompact, Compact, Midisize, Large, small station wagon or midsize
station wagon), the vehicle with the best mileage is a foreign car.

Big whoop! GM has more brands than any import brand.

GM cars made in North America that get more than 29 mpg highway:

Chevy Cobalt, Malibu, Classic, Pontiac G5, G6, Vibe,

The Chevy Aveo (Korea) and Saturn Astra (Belgium) are made in either
Asia or Europe.

Toyota Cars that 29 mpg (highway):

Yaris, Camry, Corolla, Prius, Matrix, Scion xD

So Toyota sells as many models that get 30 mpg that are made in the US
by GM.

And Toyota makes two models that get more than 30 mpg CITY.

So, considering that Toyota has 3 brands (toyota, Lexus, Scion) and GM
has 7 (GMC, Hummy, Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, Saab), Toyota does
pretty well.

You mean like the Chevy Aveo? Oh, I see what you mean: Chevy has to
import it.

That's true. In every category of car, an import brand car (often made
in the US of mostly US parts), gets better mileage than the American
brand in the same size catagory.

Like the Chevy Aveo. However, Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers
do make cars in the US with mostly US parts. Toyotas, on average
(including cars that are made in the US and outside the US) have about
42% US content; Hondas just over 50%, according to a group supported by
retired Detroit-3 workers (Level Field Institute).

Jeff

 

You're either young and idealistic or painfully naive. Fundamental
ideologies of capitalism and communism are no longer valid. Granted,
the US government at some point has regulated certain industries, but
it wouldn't go as far as imposing caps on CEO's salaries. However, the
US government has always been the one, directly or by proxy, to bail
the venture capitalists out when they go brankrupt.

With the current US economic downfall and fucked up financial
engineering, then soon enough, the whole US economy wil be bailed out
by the sovereign wealth fund (SWF) from the Arabs government, the
Russian government and even the Chinese, which is still listed as a
communist country. Think about that!

 

I think you've got your tinfoil beanie on a little too tight.

 

He is taxed the same as everyone else. If I make $13 million this
year, I will pay the same tax he does.

If you mean the tax is progressive, you are right. It always has
been.

Nope. It isn't the money being taxed, it is the transaction. If I
earn a dollar, I pay tax on it. If I pay the dollar to the plumber,
he gets taxed on it. If he buys groceries with it, the store pays
taxes on the profits. Daddy Richbucks gets taxed when he earns a
dollar. Then he passes it on to, perhaps, his no-good kid who never
worked a day in his life. Now if I had to pay tax and the plumber had
to pay tax and the grocer had to pay tax and even Daddy Richbucks had
to pay tax, why should the no-good kid have to pay tax?

You must be an anarchist if you believe the state has no just
authority to collect taxes.

If you are talking about estate taxes, I would point out that the
person who had the earnings and life savings is dead. The only just
thing would be to fill their yacht with the cash and the body, set it
on fire, and push it out to sea.

As for being jealous, no I am not jealous. I am angry at the super
rich who use their power to rape this country.

Like I said, I wouldn't dream of stopping them from pushing his salary
well into the 80% bracket.

 

There is no other way, that I've ever seen. People start voicing their
dissatisfaction (like the OP), a shareholders movement gathers steam,
and finally they rein in the irresponsible management. A bit like the
political process. Some want to stifle dissent, and label those that
speak out as dissidents, trouble-makers, communists ...

 

OTOH try Toshiba's tech support for their laptop computers and
discover why Japan's economy has been stagnant since the 1980s. The
people working Toshiba's first two levels of tech support seem to know
almost nothing about Toshiba computers and simply search the company's
website -- the very same skimpy website available to the public.
Once, when I asked for the maximum memory module size supported by my
computer, the "technician" replied, "2-0-4-8-M-B". I suspected that
he didn't understand what that meant, and he confirmed that he had no
idea what "M-B" was. At least a half dozen other Toshiba employees
were just as bad, including one who thought that my computer had a RAM
capacity of 160 gigabytes.

 

More actual different cars, or more cars that are about the same under
the skin?

It's amazing that GM makes about 75 different models and has only 25%
US market share, but at its peak it had 50% market share with only
about 20-30 different models. Chevy alone used to have about the same
market share as all of GM does now.

I thought CAFE meant Corporate Average, not model average or size
class average. What's GM's CAFE compared to Toyota's or Honda's
(include or exclude trucks and SUVs as you wish)? If GM had a high
enough CAFE, would it have to sell so many budget cars, like Saturns
and Cobalts?

 

McCain-Feingold is such an attempt.The "Fairness Doctrine" was another.
Liberals tossing pies in conservative speakers faces or shouting them down
are attempts to stifle;anti-free speech.
Or,like Communists/Socialists,they call for government to enact laws
against it.

Nobody is stopping shareholders from speaking out,debating,or adjusting
their exec salaries and compensation.
It simply has not happened.

 

Where did I say domestic do not import cars? You can pick and choose all
you want and believe whatever you choose, but what I posted is factual and
that is the fuel economy of American cars the same size as made by the
Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese cars, look at the CAFE
lists. In addition one does not need to settle for an underpowered car,
like the 4cy Camry, to get decent mileage when the buy a domestic. Import
brand penchant to spin their engines to higher RPMs so they can advertize
higher HP figures greatly effects the torque that one needs to get the
vehicle moving and keep it going up a grade. That basic engineering fact
reduces ones actual fuel mileage when one drives in hilly or mountainous
parts of the country.

The US Commerce Department does not agree with the domestic content numbers
you site, in any event

 

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I told all four that
there were going to be some times where we don't agree with each
other. But that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a
lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html

I have clearly stated otherwise.

 

No, never heard of it.

 

No where. I didn't say you said anything about this.

No, your opinion is not factual. The most fuel efficient model of each
type of car (midsize, subcompact, etc.) is made by a foreign automaker,
often a Japanese automaker. For example, each of the two biggest
automakers make more cars that get more than 30 mpg CITY than GM and
more cars that get 40 mpg highway than GM, too.

Considering that the Camry is one of the best selling vehicles in the
US, US consumers do not seem to think it is underpowered.

Interestingly, one can get higher power by using a lower gear. That's
why there is a transmission on the cars.

Your evidence of this is what? Exact URL, please.

However, the Level Field Institute did determine its domestic content
from data from the US Gov't, including the Commerce Department.

Jeff

 

Speaking of believing whatever you choose, how are those Fords
selling, Mike? Seems like all it took was $4 gas and all of a sudden
didn't need, want or afford those F150 anymore. Remember this:

Gordon: Hey Mike, care to comment on US Ford sales falling behind
Toyota this year? Or the fact that Toyota may pass Chevy to be the
best selling brand?

Mike: Perhaps but the fact remains as of today the two best selling
vehicles are trucks not cars and both GM and Ford outsell any import.

OK. Comparing Cobalt to Civic and Corolla, The Japanese cars get 3-4
more mpg in the city and 4-5 more on the highway. Focus is better but
still 1-2 mpg short.

Do you honestly believe that the Import brands have trouble going up
hill? If they were such dogs, they wouldn't be outselling the
domestics by such a huge margin, would they?

Of course, you have no evidence to support your poorly stated
assertion.