GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants

Jeff, nice post,
as to Mike:

Impala with V-6 beats the Toyota Avolon and its bigger,
tied with the Camery v-6, and again the Chevy is bigger.
To beat the Malibu 22/32 mpg you have to buy a hybred Camery 33/34 at
substanially more money, the Pirus is listed as well, but its smaller
than the Malibu, as is the Nissan smaller. Honda has nothing
in the mid size class, although as far as I am concerned the Accord is
a mid size, not a full size.
The corolla wins over the Aveo (sedan 4 door) by 2 mpg highway, but
has less passenger space
in the subcomapct range, Cobalt XFE has higher mpg on highway then
most everything in the class and ties the Honda /civic, yet has more
horsepower, and more passenger room
Its intertesting that www.fuleeconomy.gov stuck the Chevy HHR in with
SUVs, still does better than most of them, and as in my opinion its a
minivan it beats just about all in that class.
The chevy 1500 with the small V-8 gets better gas mileage than the
imports with a v-6, beats the Tundra with a V-6 by 1 mpg, the V-8
model by 2 mpg.
In small trucks the Tocoma 4 banger beats the Colorado by 1 mpg, but
has a smaller engine with less hp.

To get 40mpg you have to buy a hybrid, and its a beer can most models,
which is ok for city driving I guess.

and dropping a gear raises the rpm substantionally and blows the fuel
mileage out the window.

Whitelightning

 

But your point is valid anyway.

The facts are BIG displacement engines get poor urban fuel economy.
It better to use a small engine with more flexible gearing.
Top keep costs low some manufacturers, such as GM with the base Impalla,
use only a 4 spd auto, which results in very poor driving flexibility.

 

I am no fan of Georgie's, but this was clearly a joke. He never
claimed he wanted to be dictator. He deadpanned that things would be
a lot easier to get done if he were.

Release your hate... It's not doing you any good...

 

NOPE!
The Impalla V6 with it's 4 spd auto is a shitty car to drive. EPA 18/29
The Impalla I rented had far too much spacing between 3rd and 4th gears.

Avalon EPA 19/28 is the same for practical purposes.
The Avalon has a slightly larger passenger volume and with it's 6 spd
auto I know it will be much nicer to drive.

The Camry 4 cyl 5 spd auto is EPA 21/31.
IMO the Camry is the better mid sized car for mostly urban use.
Carries 4 large adults, has a large trunk, and is easier to park than
either the Impalla or Avalon.

 

that's a valid point!

however, proper transmission designs (auto) and shifting techniques
(manual) are meant to save the engine's life, not fuel. Racing
bicyclists know this too well. If a bicyclist doesnt drop gears when
going uphill then he may save himself from some frenzied pedaling, but
he'll get burned out before reaching the final line.

 

I have a stressful job, too. And a Master's. I make .01 percent of that
and if I were in charge of a division that lost that kind of money, I'd
be out on my ass in a heartbeat. Stressful job, yeah right.

 

Point being on extreme grades, like the passes through the Rockies
yeah its going
to come out of over drive. But the engine should have enough torque
and horsepower
to pull light and moderate grades with out shifting like a yoyo. I
can pull moderate
grades at 65-70 mph in my Caviler with it loaded to the gunnels, its
normal state of
being for my current career and it delivers 32-34 mpg. It did the
same on vacation earlier
this year when we went up to upstate New York from Florida running
through the Blue Ridge mountains. And then up through Fancy Gap then
through central PA and finally up into the Adirondacks. We meandered a
bit, I been in flat lands too long and needed a mountain fix bad lol.
Point being these fuel efficient small engines have no guts, they
depend on rpm to compensate. My Cavilear is the same way if I want to
go like hell it will, and do it quickly, but it has to drop gears and
wind out to do it and the gas mileage plunges like a rock. That
makes them just fine for local driving, and urban living buts that's
all. Then again the places building them that's all they are used for.
People seem to forget that most countries that manufacture cars aren't
as big as most of our states, and have used the trains for ever for
travel. I should know as I lived in Europe for 4 1/2 years. Cant
wait for the new GM 4.5 diesel to come out for light trucks.

Whitelightning

 

In your opinion you're correct the camry IS a mid size.
The Impala on the other hand is a full size, or at least as close
to a full size as you can get today.
Whitelightning

 

He's NOT saying he wants a dictatorship.
Evidently you missed where Bush said "IF". Seems he was making a joke,or
an observation about dictators.
(dictatorships are "fine" as long as -you- are the dictator...)

You seem to be inconsistent then,as you complain about the BOD not being
responsive to the shareholders,but you offer no other solution.

 

I don't recall mentioning mpg. I think I mentioned QUALITY. Deming
taught them to continuously improve quality as a way to long term
success. GM concentrates on continuously reducing "costs". Those two
approaches are diametrically opposed.

GM is also the most pig headed corporation around, but that's another
discussion for another day.

 

Many a truth is spoken in jest.

Why is it hate when I point out that Bush acts like a dictator and
endorsed himself for the position, but not hate when you accuse me of
advocating dictatorship when I point out that $13 million might be
excessive compensation for driving a company into the ground?

 

But I did offer a solution. If we tax all compensation above say $2
million at an 80% tax rate, it will greatly diminish the incentive to
award yourself a huge pay day. If you jack up the compensation to
compensate for the tax rate, it will be even more unjustifiable in
terms of cost to the company and at least the stolen money will go
into the Treasury rather than the pockets of these thieves.

Do you really believe they couldn't find someone at least as competent
as Wagoner for $2 million?

 

that's just BDS;Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Bush did no such thing.That is just what you read into it.
You're deluded if you believe Bush "acts like a dictator".
He did a lot of diplomacy before he decided on action.Talk alone doesn't
always succeed.

it probably is,but that's still no reason to involve gov't regulation,and
you haven't suggested any -other- method of correcting "excessive
compensation. You just whine that it's a "boy's club" and that shareholder
voting is ineffective.

 

And you thus LIE when you say you don't want to involve government.
Taxation IS a government function.

AND you want to use taxation punitively.
Taxation is for raising revenue,not for punishment.
You WOULD be a "dictator".You want to dictate arbitrary limits on exec
pay,without any factual basis.

Ah,yes,expanding government.
Then your socialists can dish it out for pet projects and costly,useless
social programs that make things worse,long-term,as they have in the past.

 

:

The fuel economy of American cars the same size as made
by the Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese
cars, look at the CAFE lists. GM for example, offers more
cars that get 30 MPG or more than does ANY import brand.
________________________________________________

:

I didn't mean mpg. I meant QUALITY.
GM is also the most pig-headed corporation around.
_______________________________________________

That'll put Mike in his place. He can talk of measurable
things like mpg but he can't deny that you have personal
opinions about 'quality' and 'pig-headedness'.

Touche.

Rodan.

 

If you're going to quote someone, please do it accurately or at the
very least, try paraphrasing without totally changing the meaning of
what someone posted.

Here's what I actually said:
Mike Hunt brought up MPG in response to my original post. But, I made
no statements concerning MPG in my original post. That was something
he brought up on his own. I don't see how mpg relates to discussions
of quality except very abstractly.

The point remains - the Japanese whooped our butts in the auto
industry by concentrating on continuously improving quality.

Again, mpg is not really pertinent to a macro discussion of why he
Japanese kicked our butts. Their cars could have gotten mileage twice
what US built cars did and they still would not have sold very many.
What allowed them to grab market share was concentrating on continuous
improving quality and thereby producing products that over time gained
tremendous loyalty from the public (just as Deming taught them). You
might want to go do some reading on Deming - although I sense that you
don't really want to learn.

As for the pig-headedness, it's a fact: GM has driven every talented
board member who's joined them off the board in just a few years. In
most cases the talent has come in with a large stock stake and been
willing to take a major financial loss just to get out. Why? Because
GM is run by a bunch of pig headed zealots who live in the past and
refuse to listen to anyone but themselves. Again, do some learning.

 

The Ka has proved highly profitable for Ford despite its low selling price,
largely due to the lack of spending required in its development. It has been
the best selling car in its class in the United Kingdom for a number of
years and commands around a fifth of the city car market. Canada's hottest
seller for years wasn't accepted here. Because it had controversial looks
and instrument cluster that people hated or loved. With the correct engine
both these cars get over 50-60 mpg.

The Toyota Echo is a model name previously used by the Toyota Motor
Corporation on the export version of two different models.

a.. The Toyota Platz (1999 - 2005) sold as the Toyota Echo in North
America and the Middle East.
b.. The first generation Toyota Vitz Sold in Canada (1999 - 2005) and sold
as the Toyota Echo in Australia and Taiwan, several other Asian markets, and
also in Canada from 2004 to 2005 as the Toyota Echo hatchback. It is now
sold in all those markets as the Yaris. The Yaris is sold in South America
and the Caribbean. Its sold mostly in Aruba and has some illegal chains in
Bolivia. And now the US.
.. Also Cafe statistics are picked in 5mpg increments. You pick cars in 5
miles per gallon increments and you cant see the differences in 1 to 4 miles
per gallon. This argument is pointless. The Scion brand has their mileage
reduced to increase performance. From the drivetrain they were made from.
The first generation Toyota Yaris. And most if not all jap / euro / VW
supermini cars such as the Ford Fiesta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fiesta , Renault Clio, Vauxhill Corsa.
have smaller engines that get better mileage then shown by Cafe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka However the cars aren't here . Or here
with those high mileage engines . The Yaris/ Echo/ Scion, had a 1.0 liter
that isn't here. The US 2006 Yaris get 40 mpg highway and 34 city. People
are getting 60 mpg in Echos in Canada. But my 2005 Echo that gets 41 highway
and 35 city with an auto OD transmission. You can compare all day. But GM
and Ford are political powerhouses. All US sellers of cars are guilty of
limiting the high mileage cars available in the US. I mean cars getting
40-60 mpg are across the Canadian border . GM and Ford are most guilty
because they don't have the high mileage cars to sell. But if you wish to
argue mileage. Compare against the cars that aren't here for political and
monetary reasons. Some by GM and Ford/ Chrysler themselves. Then as you can
see. GM and gas mileage shouldn't be spoken in the same sentence.

 

Pulease.

 

Where did I say I didn't want to involve the government? I said that
the government should dictate how much an executive is paid. Obviously
the government has the right to set tax rates.

Tell that to the "conservatives" who set punitive tax rates on drugs
which they previously made illegal.

Again, no such thing. They can pay him a billion dollars if they
want. He would clear $200 million after taxes. If that's not enough,
they can pay him more.

We don't need to expand the government to justify more taxation. We
still have to pay for Dick and George's Excellent Adventure in Iraq.

You mean like universal health care that every other citizen in every
other country that is not a sinking shithole gets?

 

Yeah, like that. Yet another useless and costly social program. ****
that.

If you don't like the USA, why don't you fucking leave, dickmunch? Go
find yourself a nice, cozy fucking communist/socialist bullshit country,
and enjoy their "free" healthcare. Just **** right off and die, asswipe.