GM U.S. July sales down 19.5 percent, Honda up 10.2%

As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.


mike hunt

 

An engine made by FIAT to boot


mike

 

Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car


mike hunt

 

That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.

nate

 

designed, not made. However, if you can keep the rust monster at bay,
an old FIAT will actually last quite a long time; when I was a kid a
neighbor down the street had one of those little red boxy looking FIAT
coupes, and his wife drove the wheels off of it. It was a cute little
thing, and since he kept up with the maintenance (and squirting oil up
into all the nooks and crannies apparently,) last I heard it was handed
down to his daughter.

Apparently you can make a neat little GTI type racer by mixing and
matching FIAT and Yugo parts...

nate

 

That is incredibly stupid

People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
comfortable and at a low cost

In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
cars at the destination

There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
cars

 

Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows

mike

 

Just remembered, I've seen a couple of those little Datsun 2-seat
convertibles (pre-Z car) nicely restored as well. At least one at each
of the last couple local car shows I've been to.

nate

 

Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.

How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?

nate

 

That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
you.

nate

 

Apparently you do not know much about the US if you believe that.


mike hunt

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.



mike hunt

 

As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
*acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.

nate

 

I have one of those as well.

mike hunt

 

Isn't envy one of the deadly sins? It is people like me that makes work for
others


mike hunt

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far better
job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may owners
do you know that do things like changes brake fluid, do pressure tests
monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart and
clean electrical connectors etc?

To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business.
Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five years
or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them even
longer. To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police
officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work
properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that we
serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the clock
and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.

The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of the
rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The
difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their
product that they get rid off in a year or less.


mike hunt

 

Mike Hunter wrote:

(idiot top posting fixed)

What are you talking about, oh top posting one?

nate

 

Mike Hunter wrote:

(idiot top posting fixed)

I do that, and I try to remind those that I care about to do that as
well. Not done on fleet vehicles IME.

Nobody does that, not even the fleet managers. I should know, having a
fleet car. Well, I do, when I have to, on my own cars.

Not true; I turn in my car at 70K miles, I think the service trucks are
kept a little longer but not much, maybe 100K or so.

That's the exception not the rule.

IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When
they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out
(well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I
work for uses are!) Before I got my company car, I drove my
predecessor's car for a few days that was actually over the 70K cutoff.
Aside from the ludicrously loud noises from under the hood, the
shimmy, and the disconcerting creaks and clunks from the front end, it
was just fine. I would find this totally unacceptable in a personal
vehicle.

nate

 

Horse shit. Size and power are always a compromise between
needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy,
maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving
cars the size of the Queen Mary by now.

Well, I guess you have now obliquely defined what a "midget car" is.
It must be the Yaris and Fit class of cars. No, these are not built
here, at least not yet. (Where are they built?)

You imply that these cars are why Honda and Toyota sales are booming
while GM and Ford are in the dumper. The Yaris and Fit constitute
only a tiny sliver of Toyota and Honda sales. They certainly don't
explain why Pilot outsold Explorer last month.

I have to doubt any "fact" you post, but I do know for sure that
truck-based SUV sales have been falling for the last four years.

The average American's wages haven't been keeping up with inflation
since W got into office. Lots of Americans can't afford the gas for
the Suburban they foolishly bought three years ago no matter how
accustomed they become to $3/gal. The truck-based SUVs which kept GM
and Ford afloat will not come back until gas drops below $2. Don't
hold your breath.

 

You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The
problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed
well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford
recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead.

http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474

 

At least you prefaced your post as your opinion because that is all it is,
an opinion based on your particular experience. The facts are as I
presented them, but you are free to believe whatever you chose.

mike hunt