Happy trails to you...

Well, i finally did it. The civic will be gone as of this time tomorrow.
I sold it on Ebay for my reserve price of $5495. 52k miles, 5spd, A/C,
service manual, owners manuals and all paperwork. A fun lil car that
never let me down in the 8 years ive owned it. Hopefully the new owner
will appreciate it as much as i have.

Pardon me while i get a bit verklempt...

Anyhow, i start calling dealerships tomorrow, looking for a Scion xA,
5spd, in either dk blue, dk grey, or black. Then ill write the biggest
check ive ever written in my life

 

Shoot, I've been lurking this group with about 75% percent coverage since I
bought my first new Civic in 97 so I know you've been around for a long
time. You sure the xA is better than the Fit? I've guided people into
buying Toyotas (my parents included) but in all honesty, Internet parts
availability and the bar of support in RAMH and the general readily
available 'guruship' of Hondas has kept me around. I was an inch away from
paying MSRP for an FJ Cruiser several weeks ago, 'saved' by dealer greed;
thank something I didn't as that brick on wheels is dealing now. Might
still get it but have decided to take a drive of the RDX first. Good luck
and enjoy the new ride, I'm sure it will be as good as a trooper as the
civic.

 

You're not leaving the newsgroup, are you?

Life is too short not to point out you are a highly
positive, constructive, and good humored participant here.
Shucks, you're the one who said awhile back, given all else
I'd done on my Civic, bleeding them would be a non-event.
Hence I now have the satisfaction of two brake bleed jobs
under my belt in the last few years. Take credit. If Honda
is losing you, it's the Toyota online fora's gain.

I hope you'll at least update the group on how the Scion
transaction goes. Why not email the dealers instead of
phone? From reports here, seems like that strategy is pretty
effective.

 

have fun! i have to say, i'd consider scion for a new car. i think
honda have rather lost the plot in recent years. if i have to buy a
mcpherson strut compact, i may as well buy from the company that do it
well rather than from the company that betrayed my confidence and
loyalty by dropping the single best thing that differentiated honda from
the rest of an achingly blah motoring world, wishbones on a cheap compact.

 

Check out the Honda Fit.



-Bob

 

"SoCalMike" wrote

We'll "discuss amongst ourselves..."

 

well, i gave em a shot and waited for the honda fit. its a really nice
car, but in order to get it spec'ed the way an xA comes standard, id
have to spring for the "sport" model, which is close to $16k.

that "magic seat" is neat, but not worth three grand.

i considered waiting around to see how the nissan versa is going to be
like in person, but then i came to my senses... its a *nissan* fer
chrissakes.

but yeah, after talking my mom into buying one in '03, its my turn. no
timing belt, and rampless/jackless oil changes will be really nice.

the new owner called, and we are meeting at my bank in about 45mins. i
hope she likes the car, and did her research before bidding...

itd really suck if she didnt know the CX has no power steering. but she
bid, she won, its hers...

 

already did. nice car, but not nice enough for the money. and the only
model thats equivalent to the scions is the fit "sport".

 

There's only about $2400 difference (not $3000) between the two, $640 being
for the air bag option that's standard on the Fit and optional on the Scion.
The Sport package is mostly appearance stuff, but one of them (cruise
control) isn't even optional on the Scion xA. Personally I think the two
are on an even level IF you get the dealer installed options on the Scion
that come as standard on the Fit Sport.

The "magic seats" come on both trim levels on the Fit.

 

Good luck. Don't make a stranger of yourself.

 

Wow SoCalMike. I just sold my 98 Civic Hatch. However, I only sold it
for $2000, but it had 300,000km on it (clutch and all engine components
were still orginal). I was under presure, cause I expected my new 07
5drs 5spd Yaris Le (with B-Package) to arrive in a few month, but the
salesguy had it ready in a week! so I was scrambling to sell the old
car.

I can understand your choice with the xA, considering that there's no
5drs Yaris sold in the States. Reason being, it would compete directly
against the xA.

I've already put on 400km on the Yaris (in 1 day) and any pangs I used
to have regarding choosing the Yaris over the Fit has been eliminated.
The Yaris is just too nice, everything else starts to pale in
comparisons. It's well suited for XXL size guy and in the 5dr Yaris, I
can sit behind myself comfortably. Also, the Hatchback Yaris can be
surprisingly sporty with the right kind of tires, while the Fit is
probably already dialed in to the Max. There's many comparisons where
the Yaris loses out to Fit (on US sites), but in each case, it's the
Yaris Sedan that's being compared, the Hatchback version of the Yaris
is a different animal.

So far, one of my only complaints about the Yaris, is that it needs
better springs, which can easily be solved by a TRD (or Eibach) add-on.
I still want the spring travel (or higher), but the stock springs
bottoms out too easily (given I was carrying about 800lb and jumping a
curb at the time shouldn't be a factor *grin*). My old Civic hatch, in
the same situation, would NOT have buttomed out, and that's on
performance shocks/springs that had 260,000km on them, so a brand new
Yaris should be able to do the same.

Looking forward to hearing about your new xA.

Pars
07 5drs Yaris.

 

All the Fit comparison I've encounter is againt the Yaris Sedan and it
doesn't make sense to compare a Hatchback against a Sedan. Especially
in the States, where there's no gray area for Hatchback drivers vs
Sedan driver, it's one or the other, regardless of the capabilities of
the car. The xA vs the Fit would have made for a better comparison
consider they both have a 5th door (or in Canada, it'd be the Fit vs
5dr Yaris). It's funny how these marketing people are usually the ones
that are out for lunch.

If your intrested in the RDX, the V6 Rav 4 would be it's direct nemsis.
The FJ Cruiser would be going against the Jeeps or the Nissan XTrail.

Pars

 

True! Considering that Honda is losing two 98 Civic Hatchback drivers
and advocates to Toyota would indicate something amiss. I'm still
stinging over the double wishbone issue. I've done 300,000km on a
lighweight, front drive, long wheelbase, double whishbone setup, on
performance springs and shocks, in some of the worst Canadian weather
and the McPherson strut, no matter how good, will not compare. So, I've
resigned myself to a more mundane, but more practical 5dr replacement
that's riding on McPerhson strut. For the future, I'll just have to be
prepared to dish out some real money for a sports car.

Pars

 

you know, i did the math on this. unless you need to impress someone
with the interior of your car, the 30k or so you'd spend buying a
pre-built "sports car", you can buy a used california [rust free] civic,
some really hot mods and have yourself a real rocket - one that handles
well. depends on taste i guess.

 

The old 98 Civic I just sold had no rust. I was considering dropping in
a newer engine and transmission, replace the entire exhust system,
replace old emission parts, replace the old shocks/springs, re-do the
tint, put in RSX seats, get uncle to re-upholster the interior with
leather, order a new carpet and get uncle to install, replace the
cracked front bumper, re-paint car and fix dings. Since I knew the
right people, I probable could have got all that done for about
$10,000. Only thing is, I still wouldn't have Air Condition and I
couldn't rely on the the car to be trouble free when compared to a new
one off the assemble line. So, I took the easy way out and simply
bought a new car and put my racing genes on hold.

Pars

 

i hear you. i did that for a while, but have come back to the 89 civic
because i was just so bored.

as an aside, last i looked, the a/c kit for the 96 was just under $1000.

 

Your might be right. If I remeber correctly, I believe you're an
old-timer with a lot history with Autos which I can respect. I've
owned 7 Automobiles (3 of them being brand new) and I think the 98
Civic Hatch will probably leave the most lasting impression. But at
moment, I'm just having too much fun with the 07 5drs Yaris. I've done
700km on the odo (in only a few days) and it's steadly becoming more
endearing. It can't behave like the old Civic Hatch at the extremes,
but it's such a precise quality piece of machinary, it can't help but
put a smile on my face. It's nimble like a the Civic and is prefectly
setup for my 6'2 frame. My view of the road is spot on.

Pars

 

good to know about that yaris. i'm 6'5" and there's not many cars have
sufficient headroom, [including hondas with sun/moon roofs] so the
height accommodation is worth my checking out. i can see my 89 hatch
being kept as the "fun" weekend car, with a more modern daily driver to
take care of the boring stuff. i used to have a 00 civic, but never
really liked it. it still had wishbones and therefore handled
comparatively well compared to a lot of mcpherson stuff, but compared to
the 89, it was both slower [even "broken in" at 50k miles] and
noticeably heavier which was bad for handling. you also had to go ex or
si to get sway bars too, something even the basic 88-91's have as
standard. honda just "heavied" the body up on that model without
examining all the handling dynamics, and in the absence of sway bars, it
made rapid transitions from one lean to the other quite alarming. maybe
they /wanted/ to make it a duffer because all subsequent work across
their product range has been geared towards "paying for performance",
but even so, the 00 was a pale shadow of its predecessors. the only
thing the 00 really did well was manage the automatic transmission
better. prior to the 99's, full power gear shift was transitioned by
the torque converter. in the 99 and up, it's assisted by "throttling
back" the motor, [in this case, retarding ignition timing so engine
output drops substantially], so shifting was a lot smoother, and i
suspect, transmissions would last longer, but other than that, the whole
vehicle bored me silly. /hated/ the seats compared to the 89. maybe
i'll put a late model v-tec motor in the 89 some day with this updated
transmission control, but the re-wiring will be non-trivial. definitely
"back burner"!

 

I had my 6'5 brother-in-law in the 07 Yaris last night. He didn't seem
too big for the car, but I wonder about his view of the road, since his
eye level is somewhat close to the top edge of the windshield. Also,
the steering wheel ins't telescopic, so if you're 6'5 and have alot of
legs, it could be problem.

Regarding the 00 Civic, the hatch didn't have any swaybars, while the
coupe/sedan only had one up front and the Si(R) had both of them. I
totally agree with you, regarding the bad left/right transition which
prompted me to improve the cars handling, after an extremely scary
epsiode on the highway back in 1999. I was going to add swaybars, but
after I installed the Tockico Shocks and Eibach Pro-Kit springs, and
combined with the 7" wide rims, left/right stability was no-longer an
issue. Which was cool, because the swaybars would have messed-up the
car bad-weather capabilities (since they mount right onto the control
arms). I then added 3 strutbars and the top-rear was ideal, giving
enough rigidity to the rear to let in come out when it needed to. If
you get your hands on a 98 or 00 Civic Hatch, I highly recommed the
above modifications. The only car that I drove, that came close to same
level of handling capability, was my friends 2000 Celica GTS which
sported TRD springs. Also, with the suspension add-ons on the 00 Hatch,
the driving charateristics becomes more like that of the 89 (more
nimble and better road feel). However, the 00 structure is strong
enought to take the abuse without throwing off the alignment or balance
(after 270,000km...I never had to give the car an alignment and
handling at the extreme was always predictable).

Anyways, all the work I put into modifying my old 98 Hatch is now
someone elses babe. The 07 Yaris will have some big shoes to fill.

Pars

 

the 89's not over-endowed in the leg dept, but it's ok. a crx is /much/
better, as in, i have to stretch for the pedals!!! a really novel
experience for me! but about 1" less headroom though.

i put the si sway bars on my 00, and it handled much better, especially
with bilstein shocks. can't say i noticed any problems in bad weather.
i know a lot of the circuit racer gang all swear against sway bars in
the wet, but they all use super-rigid [20mm+] rears which i just don't
understand. i know they're trying to eliminate understeer, but i don't
get the logic of trying to corner on 3 wheels when 4 are available.
there's nothing wrong with understeer if you know what you're doing.
again, i say adhesion with 4 on the ground is better than 3, and any
stiff rear sway bar worshiper is going to have to have a /really/ good
argument to persuade me otherwise.

glad you dialed it in how you like it. personally, i think my stock 89
handled better than my modded 00, and my modded 00 was /way/ better than
it was stock! i tried si shocks, [slightly better than stock hatch
shocks - good on freeways], kyb agx's, [good when "landing", but a
little harsh on freeways] and bilsteins [floaty, but they made the car
corner well], but there was still something lacking. maybe i should
have tried tokico's but i was through with messing by the time i sold
it. the fact that my 89 could dust it was really the last straw.

that's the hazard of having more than one car at a time - comparisons
are /real/, not ignorable on the basis of "maybe i'm not remembering it
right". at the time all this was going on, i had 4 to compare:, 89, 91
& 00 civic hatches, and a 91 crx. crx easily handled the best of the lot.