honda coolant temps sensor problem - redux

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by jim beam, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    i've had a persistent low-grade problem on my 89 civic which i now think
    i've cured and want to post for the archive. i think it's important
    because i had been diagnosing it as a sensor problem, and it would
    appear that others have too if the fact that in all my local junkyards,
    unless you get to a fresh vehicle very quickly, the sensor has been
    removed, presumably by someone chasing the same problem on their own
    vehicle. it appears to be an issue with most honda vehicles of late
    80's, through to the mid-late 90's.

    i noticed the problem because i have a 90 japan-made crx, otherwise
    identical to my 89 civic, and it does not have the symptoms. prior to
    that, i thought my civic was "just that way" and was simply slow to warm
    up and uneconomical because it was aged.

    symptoms:
    i. poorer fuel economy. it's not awful, but it's 10%-20% lower than normal.
    ii. rapid discoloration of engine oil
    iii. slow engine warm-up and thus delayed torque converter lock-up on
    automatics. this is the most immediately noticeable.

    diagnostics:
    1. check coolant system. i tried three different thermostats before
    deciding for sure this wasn't the problem.
    2. check sensor. these can and do fail. when i replaced mine, the
    fault disappeared for a while showing i'd scratched the itch, but then
    it returned.
    3. check the sensor wiring.

    analysis:
    the thermistor used by honda is much lower resistance than is used by
    many other manufacturers. only about 2.5kohm at 25C. [others use 10k -
    50k.] that's fine for the electronics, but when the operation temp
    climbs, thermistor resistance is in the 100-200 ohm range and any
    connection problems or noise start to become a significant percentage of
    such a low value.

    on checking the connector plug, i found that the inside terminals were
    shockingly loose and would grip a test spade hardly at all. static
    electrical resistance was ok, but when hot or subject to vibration, i
    think electrical noise would become very significant. as the computer
    would appear to average readings to mitigate electrical noise on
    unshielded leads, it would seem to be using a false higher thermistor
    reading in its coolant temp sensor math than would otherwise be the case
    with a noise-free connection.

    solution:
    the problem then, how to remedy? the plug is "tamper proof" and hard to
    disassemble. it's also below the notoriously leaky honda distributor
    and covered in oil and filth.

    upon dissecting several junkyard donor plugs, i concluded that it was
    possible to remove the terminals from the plug since they have a snap
    plug-in feature like a lot of connector plugs - the problem is finding
    out how to push the release tab and pulling the lead so it comes out.
    also the rubber bung at the end of the plug is glued in place - great
    weather proofing, but a bitch for terminal removal. [also, later model
    connectors have the release tabs occluded, to removal of leads only
    would be pretty much impossible.] but, with terminals removed finally,
    it was possible to crimp the connectors back so they would grip the
    terminal spades tightly, reinsert with silicone grease to keep the
    weather out, and reconnect.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4451349382/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4451349388/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4451349400/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4451402360/

    upon reassembly, the connector offered a little slide resistance going
    back onto the sensor - just as it should! a quick test drive had the
    car warming up just as fast as the crx, with torque converter lockup
    just as it should.

    conclusion:
    you can recondition the connectors the hard way, as above, or you can
    just snip the plug and replace with a junkyard donor tested to connect
    better. i prefer the former because i'm a pedant, but the latter would
    have been MUCH quicker.
     
    jim beam, Mar 21, 2010
    #1
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.