Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

Hi there.

I have been looking at the new Honda Civic, it's pretty sweet, and the
welds and everything are as nice as anything I have ever seen. I just
have a question about the "Drive by wire" system that they are supposed
to have.

What happens if the Engine dies on you? In my current car, my timing
chip went once and the engine went out. I had enough steering control
left, even without power steering, to pull my car over before it came
to a stop. If the drive by wire system has no "real" or active
connection, how can it work if the engine or electronics quit on you?
Are there any backups built into the system in case any of that stuff
happens? And what if your battery dies and you need to push the car?
Can you turn the steering wheel to adjust your wheels when you push the
car?

Much thanks, sorry to bother.

David

 

This concern has been answered eloquently by a contributor to
these newsgroups a few years ago. Sorry I can't name the author, but
that person hit the nail squarely on the head with these words:

".........more importantly than that, you've got to have the
insight and wisdom to know when something has been developed to the
point where further development amounts to pointless engineering
masturbation.

"The hydraulic brake system is a textbook model of development
to perfection. So was the hydromechanical automatic transmission --
computerisation of the automatic transmission has taken away
three-for-one in durability, dependability and cost of repair what
little it has given us. We know how to make steering systems that work
and essentially never give trouble. There is, therefore, no valid
reason for steer-by-wire."

 

This concern has been answered eloquently by a contributor to
these newsgroups a few years ago. Sorry I can't name the author, but
that person hit the nail squarely on the head with these words:

".........more importantly than that, you've got to have the
insight and wisdom to know when something has been developed to the
point where further development amounts to pointless engineering
masturbation.

"The hydraulic brake system is a textbook model of development
to perfection. So was the hydromechanical automatic transmission --
computerisation of the automatic transmission has taken away
three-for-one in durability, dependability and cost of repair what
little it has given us. We know how to make steering systems that work
and essentially never give trouble. There is, therefore, no valid
reason for steer-by-wire."

 

I have always gotten a laugh out of such a foolish system.

The way I understand it, basically if the power fails when you are at
speed, you crash, just like on an airplane. I guess you could also put
your head between your legs and kiss your ass good-bye like they do on
planes too... ;-)

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

I have always gotten a laugh out of such a foolish system.

The way I understand it, basically if the power fails when you are at
speed, you crash, just like on an airplane. I guess you could also put
your head between your legs and kiss your ass good-bye like they do on
planes too... ;-)

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tuesday night we had some interesting weather.

Real heavy lightening.

A friend was comming back from Hazard on the Mt. Parkway
and had a nearby lightening strike. His engine car died and
he was able to pull offto the side safely.

It wouldn't restart. The engine wouldn't even crank.The EMP from
the nearby lightning strike killed the ECM, igniton system, alternator
diodes and regulator, fuel pump and the fancy after market radio/sound

system. It was a 2003 Civic.

I don't want to think what would happen if it was a "die by wire"
system.

Terry

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tuesday night we had some interesting weather.

Real heavy lightening.

A friend was comming back from Hazard on the Mt. Parkway
and had a nearby lightening strike. His engine car died and
he was able to pull offto the side safely.

It wouldn't restart. The engine wouldn't even crank.The EMP from
the nearby lightning strike killed the ECM, igniton system, alternator
diodes and regulator, fuel pump and the fancy after market radio/sound

system. It was a 2003 Civic.

I don't want to think what would happen if it was a "die by wire"
system.

Terry

 

transmission --

Ya, so was the horse and buggy, the bicycle, etc.

This reminds me of Bill Gates comment a few decades ago that
no one should ever need more than 64k of RAM on his/her
computer.

What you quote is incredibly short-sighted. It demonstrates
a lack of willingness to do any kind of investigation of why
fly-by-wire was considered. In short, these are the words
not of an engineer, scientist, or technical person but a
ninny, and a ninny tired of having more demanded of him for
his labors, at that.

He's happy with the status quo. Others are not. He should
get out of the business or certainly never enter it.

 

transmission --

Ya, so was the horse and buggy, the bicycle, etc.

This reminds me of Bill Gates comment a few decades ago that
no one should ever need more than 64k of RAM on his/her
computer.

What you quote is incredibly short-sighted. It demonstrates
a lack of willingness to do any kind of investigation of why
fly-by-wire was considered. In short, these are the words
not of an engineer, scientist, or technical person but a
ninny, and a ninny tired of having more demanded of him for
his labors, at that.

He's happy with the status quo. Others are not. He should
get out of the business or certainly never enter it.

 

Most of the fighter jets are fly-by-wire and they generally don't have
problems with failures of this system. The fly-by-wire system is
multiply redundant and rather expensive though. The main reason for it
is the fact that it allows faster response and allows the computers to
assist in stabilizing some inherently unstable aircraft designs.

In the auto world drive-by-wire would be constrained by the price points
and the multiple redundancy would probably be sacrificed. At auto speeds
the faster response of by-wire technology is not needed, so the only
possible reason to use the more expensive technology would be to allow
the computer to try to compensate for a drivers lack of skill.

Pete C.

 

Most of the fighter jets are fly-by-wire and they generally don't have
problems with failures of this system. The fly-by-wire system is
multiply redundant and rather expensive though. The main reason for it
is the fact that it allows faster response and allows the computers to
assist in stabilizing some inherently unstable aircraft designs.

In the auto world drive-by-wire would be constrained by the price points
and the multiple redundancy would probably be sacrificed. At auto speeds
the faster response of by-wire technology is not needed, so the only
possible reason to use the more expensive technology would be to allow
the computer to try to compensate for a drivers lack of skill.

Pete C.

 

The Civic has a Drive-by-Wire throttle system, not a Drive-by Wire
steering system.

 

Only drive by wire tech I can find on the Honda is a Throttle System. I
would hope that if there is a loss of power that the system supplies a
small throttle input until you pull off the road and shut the car down???

 

Only drive by wire tech I can find on the Honda is a Throttle System. I
would hope that if there is a loss of power that the system supplies a
small throttle input until you pull off the road and shut the car down???

 

A friend of mine had a similar incident with her 2003 Hyundai Accent.
Lightning struck the car and damaged the computer module and stereo

I am skeptical of electronics in place of mechanicals for transmissions,
throttle, etc. Electronics and software do not always equate into greater
reliability. I am doing whatever I can to keep my '93 Accord going
forever. At least my car is a mostly stripped down base model with a
minimum of electronics.

 

A friend of mine had a similar incident with her 2003 Hyundai Accent.
Lightning struck the car and damaged the computer module and stereo

I am skeptical of electronics in place of mechanicals for transmissions,
throttle, etc. Electronics and software do not always equate into greater
reliability. I am doing whatever I can to keep my '93 Accord going
forever. At least my car is a mostly stripped down base model with a
minimum of electronics.

 

I believe the V6 Accords (including the hybrid) also have it.

 

Which is why boats still have points.

 

Which is why boats still have points.

 

That would fit in this day-n-age of
soccer-moms-driving-SUVs-with-a-phone-stuck-on-their-ear.