Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

No, I don't think it was the airbus. In fact, if it was 1988, then it
COLDN'T have been, since the one I'm thinking of happened sometime in
the mid-to-late '90s. Something in my memory is saying it was a newer,
"exotic" type - maybe that VTOL bird that the Marines keep crashing? I
plain forget what kind of aircraft it was, though. I'll have to ask my
landlord (works for the FAA, and has a "morbid interest" streak when it
comes to oddball crashes) if he recalls it so that I can "zero in" on
the exact incident.

I do recall hearing snippets from cockpit recorder tapes on the nightly
news that clearly revealed that the pilots were "freaking" (albeit very
calmly, as pilots are wont to do) because the plane wouldn't let them do
what needed to be done. I believe the cockpit-to-tower chatter was also
pretty clear that they were trying like hell to do what was needed as
they went down, but the plane wasn't responding to it.

 

I will not allow an explosive device in my steering wheel, armed or not.
It will either not be there in the first place, or it will be removed -
period. This generally hasn't been an issue since the vehicles I buy are
generally over 8,600# GVWR and don't get airbags. When / if I need to
purchase a vehicle that comes with an airbag, it will be removed as soon
as I take delivery.

I always wear my seat belt. It is not capable of causing accidents as an
airbag is and I like something to hold me in my seat on sharp turns.

I am the cranky old man that has found I do not have the patience or
tolerance to deal with anyone but my cat. Even if I did have a spouse,
it would be you have your vehicle(s) and I have my vehicle(s) and never
the twain shall meet.

In the very unlikely event I were to have children, they would not be
allowed to drive any vehicle they did not own and insure themselves,
until such time as they had a commercial class B drivers license
indicating they had some qualifications as opposed to the class C
non-commercial which indicates you paid the fee and nothing more.

As for airbags, again they would not be allowed in any vehicle I own.
Airbags can and do cause accidents, seat belts do not.

Unlike you, I would feel safer if drivers had more training and had to
pass tests equivalent to at least a class B commercial license. Perhaps
mandating high deductibles for at fault accidents would increase driver
attentiveness as well.

In those cases they should not be on the road. Perhaps if someone could
invent an attention sensor to insure the drivers were actually paying
attention most of the time. Perhaps an eye tracker that would set off an
alarm when the driver was looking away from the travel direction for
more than 2 seconds or for two seconds repeatedly in a short span of
time when the vehicle was at speed.

Pete C.

 

I will not allow an explosive device in my steering wheel, armed or not.
It will either not be there in the first place, or it will be removed -
period. This generally hasn't been an issue since the vehicles I buy are
generally over 8,600# GVWR and don't get airbags. When / if I need to
purchase a vehicle that comes with an airbag, it will be removed as soon
as I take delivery.

I always wear my seat belt. It is not capable of causing accidents as an
airbag is and I like something to hold me in my seat on sharp turns.

I am the cranky old man that has found I do not have the patience or
tolerance to deal with anyone but my cat. Even if I did have a spouse,
it would be you have your vehicle(s) and I have my vehicle(s) and never
the twain shall meet.

In the very unlikely event I were to have children, they would not be
allowed to drive any vehicle they did not own and insure themselves,
until such time as they had a commercial class B drivers license
indicating they had some qualifications as opposed to the class C
non-commercial which indicates you paid the fee and nothing more.

As for airbags, again they would not be allowed in any vehicle I own.
Airbags can and do cause accidents, seat belts do not.

Unlike you, I would feel safer if drivers had more training and had to
pass tests equivalent to at least a class B commercial license. Perhaps
mandating high deductibles for at fault accidents would increase driver
attentiveness as well.

In those cases they should not be on the road. Perhaps if someone could
invent an attention sensor to insure the drivers were actually paying
attention most of the time. Perhaps an eye tracker that would set off an
alarm when the driver was looking away from the travel direction for
more than 2 seconds or for two seconds repeatedly in a short span of
time when the vehicle was at speed.

Pete C.

 

Yet you probably drive above 30 mph routinely. Have you any idea what
kinetic energy your car contains at the speed? Any idea of the kinetic energy
at 60 or 80 mph?

That "explosive device" behind your steering wheel is *nothing* compared to
the kinetic energy of a you alone as your sail towards your dash during
an accident. Belts help, but so do airbags. In what would otherwise be
a fatal accident, I wouldn't mind having a broken arm or two. You might prefer
having your face cut in two, and more power to you, but don't give us that
"explosive device" emotional dribble.

 

Yet you probably drive above 30 mph routinely. Have you any idea what
kinetic energy your car contains at the speed? Any idea of the kinetic energy
at 60 or 80 mph?

That "explosive device" behind your steering wheel is *nothing* compared to
the kinetic energy of a you alone as your sail towards your dash during
an accident. Belts help, but so do airbags. In what would otherwise be
a fatal accident, I wouldn't mind having a broken arm or two. You might prefer
having your face cut in two, and more power to you, but don't give us that
"explosive device" emotional dribble.

 

There were two other situations- one merely an incident that was
overcome and the plane landed safely, and another in the Alps that did
result in a fatal crash, that were blamed on the fly-by-wire.

The problem was not the idea of FBW by itself, but the poor
implementation of it by Airbus. The problem was in requiring pilot to
fix a problem, or change modes, by typing in numbers and settings on a
keypad, which is not an instinctive response of a pilot. There was no
simple way to disable computers and fly by command inputs only.

 

There were two other situations- one merely an incident that was
overcome and the plane landed safely, and another in the Alps that did
result in a fatal crash, that were blamed on the fly-by-wire.

The problem was not the idea of FBW by itself, but the poor
implementation of it by Airbus. The problem was in requiring pilot to
fix a problem, or change modes, by typing in numbers and settings on a
keypad, which is not an instinctive response of a pilot. There was no
simple way to disable computers and fly by command inputs only.

 

Don Bruder wrote:

I don't recall exact pricing any more, but the Kettering
points-and-condenser set used to be one of those very cheap things you
could buy for your car, probably because so very many were made and
sold every day of the week.

I'm vaguely remembering the set was close to the cost of an oil filter.
And if you had only one set of points (some cars had two) and were not
swapping the condenser this time around, it got even cheaper.

Anyone with a better memory?

 

Don Bruder wrote:

I don't recall exact pricing any more, but the Kettering
points-and-condenser set used to be one of those very cheap things you
could buy for your car, probably because so very many were made and
sold every day of the week.

I'm vaguely remembering the set was close to the cost of an oil filter.
And if you had only one set of points (some cars had two) and were not
swapping the condenser this time around, it got even cheaper.

Anyone with a better memory?

 

My point was not about the danger of being killed directly by the
airbag, it was about the danger of being in an accident *caused* by the
airbag. Seat belts are not capable of *causing* and accident, airbags
*are*.

It is *not* emotional dribble, it is a *fact* that people have been
injured or killed in accidents *caused* by airbags. There have been
recalls for this problem. Think, driving down the highway at the speed
limit, hit a pothole and *bam!* the airbag blows up in your face. A
second later and you're splattered against a bridge column.

Pete C.

 

My point was not about the danger of being killed directly by the
airbag, it was about the danger of being in an accident *caused* by the
airbag. Seat belts are not capable of *causing* and accident, airbags
*are*.

It is *not* emotional dribble, it is a *fact* that people have been
injured or killed in accidents *caused* by airbags. There have been
recalls for this problem. Think, driving down the highway at the speed
limit, hit a pothole and *bam!* the airbag blows up in your face. A
second later and you're splattered against a bridge column.

Pete C.

 

youre more likely to be hit by lightning

 

youre more likely to be hit by lightning

 

Um, no. The documented incidence of accidents cause by improper airbag
deployment is significant and I'm quite sure there are many that go
unrecognized and undocumented because once the car is splattered against
the bridge support there is no obvious indicator that the airbag went
off well before the final impact.

Will not be allowed in any vehicle I own under any circumstances - ever.

Pete C.

 

Um, no. The documented incidence of accidents cause by improper airbag
deployment is significant and I'm quite sure there are many that go
unrecognized and undocumented because once the car is splattered against
the bridge support there is no obvious indicator that the airbag went
off well before the final impact.

Will not be allowed in any vehicle I own under any circumstances - ever.

Pete C.

 

That's garbage. Higher capacity is required for tasks that
deal with large amounts of data, or need to do large amounts
of data analysis (for starters). For example:
- watching/editing high quality movies
- playing computer games with high quality graphics and sound
- analyzing data sent back by space probes / satellites
- predicting the weather

Try watching some porn on your IBM XT -- it isn't very exciting.

 

That's garbage. Higher capacity is required for tasks that
deal with large amounts of data, or need to do large amounts
of data analysis (for starters). For example:
- watching/editing high quality movies
- playing computer games with high quality graphics and sound
- analyzing data sent back by space probes / satellites
- predicting the weather

Try watching some porn on your IBM XT -- it isn't very exciting.

 

really?

google '"improper airbag deployment" honda' = 32 hits. and most of
those are in relation to a seat belt sensor recall. i didn't notice
evidence of actual deployment.

are you sure your tinfoil hat antenna is adjusted correctly?

ah, the cool technical rationale - you got me convinced pete. not.

fact is, that's untrue. the bag bursts milliseconds after deployment.
any injury sustained after deployment is easily distinguishable from
that sustained during - it's /far/ worse. you've done your homework on
this, right? oh, wait...

 

really?

google '"improper airbag deployment" honda' = 32 hits. and most of
those are in relation to a seat belt sensor recall. i didn't notice
evidence of actual deployment.

are you sure your tinfoil hat antenna is adjusted correctly?

ah, the cool technical rationale - you got me convinced pete. not.

fact is, that's untrue. the bag bursts milliseconds after deployment.
any injury sustained after deployment is easily distinguishable from
that sustained during - it's /far/ worse. you've done your homework on
this, right? oh, wait...

 

They are insignificant compared to the lives saved by airbags.