honda historians required!

the only reason for putrifaction is that pissants sit on the side lines
and won't do anything about it. i contribute to wikipedia on the stuff
where i have expertise. if you have the same, and you see stuff you
don't like, fix it. if you don't, you have no business complaining.[/QUOTE]

You can't fix something like a wiki, where the ignorant masses can--with
their total and complete ignorance--create such a huge mound of garbage.
I can go in and correct errors, but I'm wasting my time--because all it
takes is one know-it-all who doesn't (or one ass playing games) to undo
it.

You may think that the cream will rise to the top, but what will
actually rise to the top is the ignorance of the masses who thought they
heard something from a friend of a friend of his dentist's mechanic.

The existence of urban legends, and the popularity of snopes.com and its
ilk, is proof that wikis are nothing but garbage.

 

You can't fix something like a wiki, where the ignorant masses can--with
their total and complete ignorance--create such a huge mound of garbage.
I can go in and correct errors, but I'm wasting my time--because all it
takes is one know-it-all who doesn't (or one ass playing games) to undo
it.

You may think that the cream will rise to the top, but what will
actually rise to the top is the ignorance of the masses who thought they
heard something from a friend of a friend of his dentist's mechanic.

The existence of urban legends, and the popularity of snopes.com and its
ilk, is proof that wikis are nothing but garbage.
[/QUOTE]
urban legend? honda on wikipedia? can't fix anything? that's way off
base.

there's some truly great stuff on there. the cream /does/ rise to the
top. sure, it can be vandalized, but repair is just as easy, and from
what i've seen, where people take the trouble to write good stuff, it
sticks. even controversial subjects where there are many opposing
viewpoints can end up [eventually] with text that sticks...

controversy example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger

not so controversial:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_energy

 

excellent!

 

Back in my autocross days (mid to late 1960's) when I was running an
Austin Mini, one of regular participants had a Honda S600 (this was a
convertible). I am not sure if this was offically imported or not--my
guess is not.

Ken

 

As cited by the wikipedia article, www.honda.com yada through the sub-links
has a timeline for Honda in America. It states: "1966 -- Honda N360
mini-compact car with air-cooled engine debuts."

See http://corporate.honda.com/america/timeline.aspx, scroll through the
years.

See also http://world.honda.com/news/2003/c030827_1.html ,which confirms
that the n360 preceded the n600.

http://world.honda.com/automobile/history.html mentions the S500 being
released in 1963, but does not indicate it was brought to the U.S.

Timelines appear to vary by one to two years. No doubt some fine
hair-splitting over the terms used would reveal why.

In sum, wikipedia's statement on when Hondas "gained a foothold" is correct.
Its first web site citation is in fact www.honda.com , which appears to me
to be the proverbial, valid "horse's mouth."

 

I don't disagree with the facts of this article on wikipedia. The Civic
was the first popular Honda in the US.



It was quite a bit larger than the Z600. I don't think I ever saw the
N600. The S500 was a gray market when I saw it.

The disagreement that I would have is with the other sites that I located
when trying to find a photo of the z600. They had timelines with missing
models. The Wikipedia article does not. It is too general to argue with.

I am disappointed by the Honda year-by-year stories, where you lose the
flow of a particular topic when tracing it from year to year.

 

That's not the only way to know something like this, e.g., I had a good
friend who had a Civic and rode in it many times. You never rode in Ed's
car, so what do you know!

You owned *several* in the mid 70's? Do you buy a new car every year, Elmo?

They were small.

 

I wasn't denying that some Honda models were in the US prior to the
Civic, just that the Civic is the first Honda I remember seeing (and
riding in).

People seem awfully touchy about this!

 

Thanks for a breath of rationality!

 

That's not the only way to know something like this, e.g., I had a good
friend who had a Civic[/QUOTE]

A 79 or earlier Civic?

Nope. But the pre-1980 Civics, I had a few. I'm a big guy; they fit me
great.

In fact, I brought home a recliner in one. Stuck it in the hatch, it
fit great.

No, those cars weren't small at all. But then, you were probably,
what--5, 6 years old at the time?

 

Which is all the article says.

And it was water-cooled. Honda's first, if I recall.

I was wondering how many early Honda models were brought over privately
rather than by Honda. Many other makes were privately imported back then,
which caused big problems when it came to parts and servicing, since the
importers hadn't got around to setting up a dealer or garage network.
Borgward comes to mind.

Honda's first Civic sold in Canada was in June of 1973, by Dalt's Honda in
Toronto. They later bought the car back from the owner, and it is in their
showroom to this day. I wonder if I should add that tidbit to Wiki.

That may be the point. Get too specific, and it can get confusing and
lengthy. People forget Wikipedia is an ENCYCLOPEDIA. Go look stuff up in
Britannica or Funk & Wagnalls. All you'll get there is a brief overview,
too.

 

A 79 or earlier Civic?

Nope. But the pre-1980 Civics, I had a few. I'm a big guy; they fit me
great.

In fact, I brought home a recliner in one. Stuck it in the hatch, it
fit great.

No, those cars weren't small at all. But then, you were probably,
what--5, 6 years old at the time?[/QUOTE]

If I'd been that young, they would have looked huge to me, not small.

 

Well, the first generation was pretty small compared to most of what else
was available at the time. The Mini was smaller, and I seem to recall there
was one Simca that was close.

I almost bought a '74 Civic, but turned it down in favor of a '75 Corolla
that was bigger inside and had a bigger trunk. I was also leery of front-
wheel-drive at a time when that was still pretty rare.

One problem I remember from the '74 I test-drove was that the pedals were
offset to one side relative to the steering wheel, which took a bit of
getting used to.

Also, Honda in the beginning had to shake off the North American public
perception that it was just a motorcycle company. It didn't have a lot of
credibility in the early '70s, especially after people saw how they rusted.

 

They had some odd sort of problem where battery acid was outgassing from
one vehicle, and dripping down onto the vehicle below during shipment,
leaving most of them with early rust on the hood, right over the battery.

(Or something like that ;-)

 

I recall seeing a small two cylinder coupe around 1970 or so. At the time I
had a Honda 750 4 cylinder bike -- so I remember doing a double take. The
car I recollect was something you would not take seriously, especially
considering Honda's forte in motorcycles. When I was in Tokyo, Japan from
67-69 Honda produced a very small chain drive sports car -- the S600 and
then S800. They had (I recollect) a liquid cooled dohc 4 cylinder that
revved very high. It was not all that competitive in autocrosses; at the
time I was autocrossing a Sunbeam Tiger (modified).

 

I remember that little gizmo, also. It was remarkable for the very
small wheels, probably no more than ten inches if the image in my
mind's eye is correct. I saw the thing right as I was getting out of
grad school, so around 1971.

Ron

 

This info. for the original poster:
If possible, try to buy a copy of this book which provides some excellent
information related to Honda cars that were made in the 1970's. There is
an excellent picture of the Z600 on page 16.
"Honda and Acura Performance Handbook" by Mike Ancas
Barnes and Noble might have it for sale or you may be able to find in on eBay.
Jason