Honda/Toyota vs American

There is another thread about new Lexus and Toyota models that has just run
too long. Accordingly, I wanted to spin off that conversation with a new
thread. There was discussion about buying Lexus versus Lincoln. One of the
things that I realized is that, more or less, Toyota/Honda vehicles are
priced by the market, both new and used, as if the car will last 150,000
miles while American vehicles are generally priced as if the vehicles will
last 100,000 miles. Meaning that at 50,000MI, a Honda/Toyota will still be
worth about 2/3 of the original price while an American vehicle will be
worth about half. This is merely a very rough rule of thumb, but something
I've noticed. Even new, the US vehicles can't be sold unless Detroit rebates
it's way to a sale, so the "out the door" price is much less than the "out
the door" price of a Toy/Hon. Even though the sticker prices are similar.
Again, this seems to reflect that the market assumes the Toy/Hon will go
150,000 miles before major trouble vs merely 100,000 for the US vehicle. My
point is that buying similar sized-categorized vehicles from Toy/Hon vs US
is no longer an apples to apples comparison. (I realize that many vehicles
go 200,000 to 300,000 miles...maybe more....of both American and Japanese
build. But my point is that THE MARKET prices Toy/Hon vehicles to last about
50% longer).

 

Good idea!

There was discussion about buying Lexus versus Lincoln. One of the

Too many people have been burned by Ford/Lincoln, I suspect.

In fairness, the market lags changes in quality somewhat because people only
know what they *had* as opposed to what they are getting. It takes a long
time to build a good reputation and a short time to build a bad one. The
last Dodge I had went bye-bye 15 years ago, and I have no intention of ever
buying another. One son had a Taurus that I helped him with occasionally,
and I say "no, thanks" to that also. Now he has a new Chevy Cobalt, and I'm
watching it. I had a Nissan 300ZX that still makes me wake up in a cold
sweat with all the electrical nightmares. Our Toyota and my daughter's Honda
have been solid values and I'd buy either brand again, even at a significant
premium. It's that simple.

Mike

 

Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans.
Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily
enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of
endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake
(Mystique).

 

My father-in-law and several other people I know will never buy another
Ford. Too many suspension, ABS and automatic transmission failures.

 

Mystique,
I agree. My last American car was a Chevy Monza. It was so bad that GM
eventually quit making them since they developed a bad reputation due to
the fact that were always having various engine problems. That was my last
American car. The American car companies like GM and Ford need to make
some major changes if they want to continue operating.
Jason

 

A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan?

I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or,
for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas
(Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system).

 

OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that Americans CAN
make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I mean by "foreign" or
"Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG
profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing,
but am just pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into
Japan.

 

Most of the problems with the cars I have fought were design problems rather
than construction quality issues. The Dodge I had even had a Mitsubishi
power train, and it was the worst system in the car. But the Taurus had a 6
inch clutch(!!!!) on a large 4 cylinder engine and a raft of other screwy
design problems. So I don't buy or recommend Mitsubishi, Nissan, Dodge or
Ford. Still watching Chevy.

Mike

 

Jack,
I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and
Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that
they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of engineers
in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and it's just like
the Accords that were "assembled" in American.

 

Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the
bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet.

 

He's a big boy - I wouldn't have gone that way, but hey....

Mike

 

The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and
their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of Americans.

 

(Jason) wrote in

Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US.
They have an engine plant in Ohio.
Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled.

Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans.

 

Honda made most of their vehicles in Canada. In California, we can find
Camry made in Japan.

 

JIm,
Great point. I think that it's great that thousands of Americans are
working in various assembly plants owned and operated by Japanese car
companies and car product companies. I even think that it's great that
Americans (regardless of their race) are working as design engineers for
Japanese car companies. My only point was that Japanese car companies in
Japan, Canada and the USA do a much better job making vehicles.

 

Regardless, the market prices them to go 150,000 miles vs US vehicles to
100,000 miles.

 

I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point that the
market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than American vehicles.

 

Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding to the
comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US companies.

 

I have no idea why you are claiming this.What's the relevance?

Rarely do things end up straight comparisons.
Sometimes it's intentional.

 

Jim,
I did not mean to ignore your comment that the profits are going to Japan
instead of US companies. I agree with you--That's a bad thing. However, I
just wanted to make the point that the owners of Ford and GM are the ones
that are mostly responsible for this problem since they are making cars
that are not as well made as cars made by Japanese owned car companies. I
blame the owners of Ford and GM--not the people that have purchased cars
made by Japanese car companies. Do you agree or disagree with me related
to my point of view on this subject?
Jason