Honda V6 engines and synthetic oil

I plan on buying a new 2008 Accord coupe V6 to replace my aging 97
VTEC-4 Accord coupe. I am considering for this new car to maintain it
using synthetic oil and strictly use Honda stock oil filters. My 97
Accord with the 2.2l VTEC four is doing fine at 210K with Jiffy lube
quality oil and filters every 3-5K with no engine related repairs. The
engine is only lightly sweating oil at the gasket, and burning about
1/4qt every 3K or so. My engine is not as smooth as was new, but is
still impressive in performance. I am wondering if any of you who use
synthetic oil (such as Mobil-1) see any real world benefits (in
addition to extended oil life) to Honda's modern engines especially V6
engines. I still plan on using quick-lube change places, although with
synthetic I will bring them my own oil and honda stock filters. I
considered doing my own oil changes, however I don't want to deal with
ramps in my apartment.

 

What do you expect to gain by using Synthetic? This is a serious
question as I hear this all the time but I just don't understand...
You have a ten year old car with 200k on it that still runs fine and
uses less oil than would be considered "normal" on a new engine. If
you buy another quality product and maintain it the same way it would
be realistic to expect that in 2018 you will have another 10 year old
car with 200k miles. Unless you are planning to keep the car and
drive it until it won't move another inch I just don't see the logic
in using more expensive oil and filters. For my use I know I will
never see the benefit, if any, of using Synthetic. After five years
or so I am going to be bored with the car and want another one.. I
don't really care if the next owner gets another 100k out of it or if
he gets another 200k.

Steve B.

 

There's an oxymoron.

 

Very true.

But what I don't understand is why anyone would get rid of a perfectly
running vehicle?

Consider that it's a known quantity and quality, it's paid for, etc.

I just don't understand the logic...

JT

 

I'm not completely sure I know which question you are asking, but I'll
guess.

Since switching to synthetic in all my new cars I've seen no trace of
carbon in engines with over 200k miles. I would not switch to
synthetic on your older car with 210k miles as there is a good chance
it will start to leak oil after using synthetic for a while. With the
new car, no problem. Just use the type of oil and weight recommended
by the manufacturer.

 

not true.

1. my car's 18 years old and switched to synthetic for the first time
last year. doesn't leak a drop more than it did before [which wasn't
much]. if anything, it now leaks less.
2. "synthetics" are no longer really synthetics - these days, they're
just a more refined version of the same base oil used in standard lubes.
http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/web_msds.display?imsdsnr=194095
10w-30 mobil1 is only 5% "synthetic".

 

I was going to ask the same question. In fact, compared to most of my
vehicles, his 97 is nearly new.

 

It varies from vehicle to vehicle. I switched some vehicles and not
had any leaks, others have leaked a lot.

Not sure what you are looking at or talking about. It's full
synthetic. That MSDS only seems to be referring to some of the
additives from what I see.

 

you sure it's the oil and not some other problem that caused your
leakage? how did you determine cause? my clunker is still on its
original seals - and they don't leak running M1.

the oil industry invests a lot of money in ensuring that not many people
are sure what they're talking about. oilco's have labs. they all know
their competition's formulations. the only people that don't know are
consumers since there's no constituent labeling requirements like other
consumer products.

wtf is "full synthetic"? have you a legal definition? search an oilco
website for their weasel wording on the subject, then report back with
your conclusions.

correct - the 5% additive is the poly alpha olefin, the stuff that "full
synthetics" are "supposed" to based on according to popular myth. good
at percentages are you?

 

Well, it didn't leak and then the syn went in and within a couple days
it was leaking badly from the valve covers. It cleaned out the crap
around the cork. Ford 5.0 with 125K

In the power steering system there was a very small leak but enough to
make it low on fluid. Topped it up with synthetic and the leak got
much worse. Suctioned the syn back out and put non-syn back in and
the leak slowed down again.

On another vehicle with zero leaks and 140K it didn't change things at
all when I switched. Ditto on one with 120K.

I looked in the past but I'm not your research gopher. There was a
big dustup when some of the other companies started using pretend syn
instead of the real stuff like Mobile.

Yeah, like I said, it seems to be listing an additive. You'll note
that the MSDS info does NOT total to 100% so clearly it's not the
complete picture. Quite possibly "oil" is something that's not
necessary to list on an MSDS whether is dino or syn.

 

MSDs dont have to show the total composition of any formulation.
You have to list the hazardous components.

 

LOL. At least the leather main seal was impervious.

 

that's the point dude, the "syn" is the poly alpha olefin - and it's a
minority component, not the majority base. mobil is still good stuff -
i use it, but as this legal msds filing shows, it's no longer "the real
stuff" it was once supposed to be. [maybe that's why there's no oil
leak issues any more?]

seriously, check the web sites for the oilcos and read their
descriptions of their "synthetic" oil products. they use brilliantly
worded language that describes what synthetics /could/ be, but stop just
short of saying that they actually use it. the reason i picked up on
this is that you were propagating common myth about "synthetics", not
reality. from what i can tell from msds info for various manufacturers,
the only "true" [majority base] synthetics left on the market are the
ester-based ones from motul and red line.

 

one more thing - which "syn" did you use? i used motorcraft semi-syn on
my civic when i first got it [it was on sale], and oil literally dripped
out of it so bad, the smoke from the main seal [the hard to get at
expensive one] running onto the hot exhaust had you shrouded in smoke at
traffic lights. i bought a full set of seals to fix the problem, but
before i used them, for some other reason i forget, i changed the oil to
castrol for a couple of weeks before i had the time to do the
strip-down. and amazingly, all the leakage stopped. since then, i've
been using either castrol or mobil, and she hasn't leaked a drop.

 

Synthetics are synthetics and semi- synthetics these days....

A semi- synthetic oil contains less than 30% synthetic oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil


Mobil1 motor oils are still 100% synthetic motor oils and do not
use conventional basestocks in the formulation.
*******************************************
Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
If you need further assistance, please contact ExxonMobil at
1-800-ASK-MOBIL
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=801097&Main=800351

 

are you the industry shill that keeps deleting msds info off wikipedia?

 

No. Just wanted to point out that even if you went out of your way
to interpret the data in a negative way against Mobil 1, then you
would still get between 80%-90% synthetic oil. The reason you
don't get 100% in all interpretations is because Mobil 1 as most
other manufacturers reformulate over time to make their oil better.
Sometimes the better reformulation includes introducing non-
synthetics.

 

but it's not 80-90% pao!!! that's what everyone /thinks/ it is and it's
not!!! pao is [was] "true synthetic". now, "synthetic" is just more
highly refined dino.

 

Who's everyone? Mobil 1 is Synthetic oil. Synthetic oil can
have any combination of Group 5,4 or 3 synthetic oil base
stock. Mobil 1's base stock is POA (group 4). Mobil 1's base
stock (POA) is a least 80%.

http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Audiences/Synthetic_V_Mineral.asp

 

indeed, "any combination". hence modern formulations which are
primarily group III with a little IV or V to make it look good. and
where do you get 80% from? that contradicts the manufacturer's own msds
filing.

let's read very carefully:

"Synthetic motor oils contain a high proportion of base stocks created
from pure chemicals. Since synthetic base stocks such as PAO are
essentially pure chemicals themselves they avoid the performance
limitations imposed by the impurities present in conventional and
hydroprocessed base oils. PAO synthetic base oils are therefore pure
compounds containing none of the impurities found in conventional base
oils derived from crude oil, as mentioned earlier."

ok, let's analyze:

what exactly is a "high proportion"? high relative to what? like 6% is
high relative to 5%? and what is "from pure chemicals"? if it's pao,
why don't they say so? "pure" usually means one chemical. my left foot
is "pure chemicals" if you want to be literal about this.

note the language "such as". note "base stocks" - plural. it doesn't
say they /actually/ use pao as their base stock - they say "base stocks"
plural and their msds filings prove pao is not their base. impurities
are a totally different subject - muddying the water in fact.

that's a logical disconnect. you have a pure compound or a mixture of
compounds. conventional base oils may not be as highly refined as group
III's, but group III's are refined from conventional oils, not
synthesized like pao's or synthetic esters.