Honda V6 engines and synthetic oil

Believe what you want. You are wrong.

 

if i'm wrong, mobil's msds filings are wrong. i'm happy for you to show
me otherwise, but you need to cite credible evidence.

 

I can see you believe in conspiracies. Exxon will not divulge exact
numbers for reasons other than what you want us to believe. The
below is what YOU want us to believe.

"10w-30 mobil1 is only 5% "synthetic"

 

dude, read the msds. it's a legal filing. it says 5% pao. don't you
want to "believe" that?

 

As are one line responses sans trimming.

 

It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%

The below, about Exxon product number 481176-00 MOBIL 1 10W-30
and its MSDS being #194095 is quoted from this link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1537471&page=2

Begin quote:
On any MSDS, the section about the composition is to disclose those
components with known harmful effects to people. The polyalphaolefins
are NOT hazardous to people, so are not listed.

The POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is a cyclic organic compound
with nitrogen and oxygen added. Think ammonia blended in with the oil,
not the stuff you want to drink with cigars.

 

eh? "ofefin" is a typo. look it up.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?CHEM

they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
chlorine.

 

It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.

Does it matter?

It's a quote. Would you like me to modify the quote?

The real substance of this thread is you are reading the msds wrong.
POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is not poly alpha olefin

 

it matters in that you didn't understand that it was a typo!

no, i want you to find a quote that is authoritative, not from some
knuckle-head on a car forum that thinks an amine is the same as ammonia!

no, it's a succinimide amine of polyolefin. the polyolefin is the
backbone of the chemical. the other stuff is just fluff that affects
molecular weight and perhaps surface adsorption properties. the "alpha"
is just morphology. in the absence of iupac nomenclature, you can't
say for sure /what/ it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC_nomenclature_of_organic_chemistry

 

Indeed, anyone 'skilled in the art' would recognize this as a misprint of
'polyolefin'.

Compounds of this sort are usually employed as dispersants or emulsifiers.

 

They mean POLYOFEFIN

POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below

http://www.suitesupply.com/Replacement-Caster-w-Polyofefin-Wheel-5.WIN-744.01.htm

http://terrauniversal.com/products/carts/gallery_carts/wafercarts08.shtml

http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp

 

let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese manufactured
goods? ok, time to move along...

 

Let's get this starlight. You won't admit that Mobil 1 is primarily
a PAO based oil. Instead all you want to do is argue about a
supposed typo in order to deflect the exposure of your mistaken
interpretation of a msds.

 

jim may be right here about the typos. Take a look closer to the bottom of
the first link you gave, where it says "Caster Specifications". There I
find the notation: "Wheel Type: Polyolefin".

When I Google for "polyofefin" or "ofefin", I find very, very little,
mostly automated "on-the-fly" pages that result from Google's deals with
advertisers.

 

with respect, there's /nothing/ on the mobil web site that tells you
that. they tell you it /could/ be, but not that it is. thats the legal
fine line. and the msds confirms it - if you know a little chemistry
and can spell.

if you can cite any authoritative analysis on this subject, i'd love to
see it - appeals to "belief" don't work.

 

Sure there is, try this :
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils_FAQs.aspx#Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs2



Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's
specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses
high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a
proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade
uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in
order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

 

POLYOFEFIN is a PROPENE POLYMER. See the msds below

http://www.hazard.com/msds/f2/bzr/bzrzm.html


POLYOFEFIN in cellular form is the dielectric in some coax cables.

http://www.berktek.com/berktekweb/products/pdf/03%20-%20Nexans%20Coaxial%20and%20Multicoaxial%20cables.pdf

POLYOFEFIN is not POLY ALPHA OLEFIN (PAO)

****************************************
Per Mobil: Mobil 1's base stock is full synthetic. Mobil considers a
full synthetic oil as a group 4 PAO base stock. Base stocks per
Mobil are typically 75%-85% of total.

http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Audiences/Synthetic_V_Mineral.asp

 

With the introduction of "propene" to this discussion, I am now prepared to
believe you that ofefin is an actual substance, not just a typographical
error.

I found this -- rather abstruse and dense -- document:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4443638.html

I think it unlikely that of all the obscure technical terms present in this
document, that "ofefin" should be one one that is misspelt. Especially
considering that I cannot find any other significant spelling errors
therein.

It appears that olefins and ofefins are closely related, but are different,
sort of like you and your sister.

 

i discussed that article in detail. why do i have to repeat myself?

 

ignoring the fact that "ofefin" does not appear to be cited in any
chemical compound databases, that article cites "internal ofefin" once
and "internal olefin" 20 times. all in the same context. i therefore
stick with typo. but i asked on sci.materials.