Horsepower cuts embarass Asians

Here is a pretty good explanation of suspension systems:
http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

Every type of suspension system has trade-offs. In the ideal suspension
system, the wheel will move up and down perpendicular to the road surface
and maintain camber so that the tire maintains maximum contact and traction
throughout the limits of wheel movement. Also, designers try to minimize
unsprung weight to minimize wheel bounce. In a mass-produced vehicle, cost
is a very big factor.

A double wishbone suspension does a very good job at maintaining camber
throughout its movement because it acts like a pantograph but is more
expensive to produce than a strut suspension.

A strut suspension generally has a lower control arm that the wheel is
attached to. The lower control arm pivots where it is attached to the
strut so the wheel's movement is actually an arc instead of straight
vertical movement. The biggest advantage of a strut type suspension is that
it is less expensive to produce while still providing more than adequate
performance for every day street driving so you see it widely used on lower
and mid-range cost vehicles.

Rally cars do not have strut suspensions because they are great off road;
they have strut suspensions because the stock versions of the cars have
strut suspensions, and the stock versions have struts because they cost less
to produce than other types of suspensions.

 

Here is a pretty good explanation of suspension systems:
http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

Every type of suspension system has trade-offs. In the ideal suspension
system, the wheel will move up and down perpendicular to the road surface
and maintain camber so that the tire maintains maximum contact and traction
throughout the limits of wheel movement. Also, designers try to minimize
unsprung weight to minimize wheel bounce. In a mass-produced vehicle, cost
is a very big factor.

A double wishbone suspension does a very good job at maintaining camber
throughout its movement because it acts like a pantograph but is more
expensive to produce than a strut suspension.

A strut suspension generally has a lower control arm that the wheel is
attached to. The lower control arm pivots where it is attached to the
strut so the wheel's movement is actually an arc instead of straight
vertical movement. The biggest advantage of a strut type suspension is that
it is less expensive to produce while still providing more than adequate
performance for every day street driving so you see it widely used on lower
and mid-range cost vehicles.

Rally cars do not have strut suspensions because they are great off road;
they have strut suspensions because the stock versions of the cars have
strut suspensions, and the stock versions have struts because they cost less
to produce than other types of suspensions.

 

The dis-advantage of the Mustang's rear end is more than just the lack
of indepedence. It's a heavy, truck like live axle, understandibly so
because you need that to turn all that engine's torque 90 degrees. The
heaviness and non-independent left and right rear wheel get a double
whammy of negativity in that regard. Yeah it'll take turns, not nearly
as well as other cars though. Cheap speed it what the Mustang is all about.

CD

 

The dis-advantage of the Mustang's rear end is more than just the lack
of indepedence. It's a heavy, truck like live axle, understandibly so
because you need that to turn all that engine's torque 90 degrees. The
heaviness and non-independent left and right rear wheel get a double
whammy of negativity in that regard. Yeah it'll take turns, not nearly
as well as other cars though. Cheap speed it what the Mustang is all about.

CD

 

it's "open" in that there's no locking mechanism. it simply transfers
torque to the wheel with the most traction, unlike a traditional diff.

more common lsd's use clutches, ratchets or locks to keep both wheels
turning together so some energy is still lost. i've not driven a
quaife, but from what i understand, always driving the wheel that gives
traction works like a charm.

 

it's "open" in that there's no locking mechanism. it simply transfers
torque to the wheel with the most traction, unlike a traditional diff.

more common lsd's use clutches, ratchets or locks to keep both wheels
turning together so some energy is still lost. i've not driven a
quaife, but from what i understand, always driving the wheel that gives
traction works like a charm.

 

agreed, but i don't see that as a disadvantage for me. there's no price
differential at the consumer end.

you're correct about cost, but the fact still remains, struts have
proven themselves to be good in low traction environments where the
little nuances of maintaining tire contact patch that are addressed by
wishbones are vanishingly unimportant. they also give a comfy ride and
are less susceptible to roll. put all that on a street car and use
wider tires to make up for the geometry issues, and you have something
that approximates to acceptable.

 

agreed, but i don't see that as a disadvantage for me. there's no price
differential at the consumer end.

you're correct about cost, but the fact still remains, struts have
proven themselves to be good in low traction environments where the
little nuances of maintaining tire contact patch that are addressed by
wishbones are vanishingly unimportant. they also give a comfy ride and
are less susceptible to roll. put all that on a street car and use
wider tires to make up for the geometry issues, and you have something
that approximates to acceptable.

 

*straight line*

 

*straight line*

 

I guess my explanation of "open differential" was a little lacking. When a
differential is "open" it does not mean that there is no locking or slip
limiting mechanism or fluid. An open differential is simply a conventional
differential. Any variation to the differential designed to transfer torque
to the side with traction means that it is no longer ann "open"
differential. Even Quaife says that their differential is better than an
open differential - IOW, it is not "open."

A differential that is locked has no energy loss.

 

I guess my explanation of "open differential" was a little lacking. When a
differential is "open" it does not mean that there is no locking or slip
limiting mechanism or fluid. An open differential is simply a conventional
differential. Any variation to the differential designed to transfer torque
to the side with traction means that it is no longer ann "open"
differential. Even Quaife says that their differential is better than an
open differential - IOW, it is not "open."

A differential that is locked has no energy loss.

 

What makes you think that there is no price differential at the consumer
end? Automakers examine the cost of every part and component in every
vehicle.

You sound like you have read a lot of auto enthusiast magazines but have not
had formal training in automotive design, engineering, or service or
experience working for an auto manufacturer. If you had, you would know
instinctively that maintaining tire contact with the ground is more
important in a low traction environment than in an environment where
traction is not as much of an issue. You would also know that a strut
suspension is not more or less susceptible to roll (I'm assuming that you
are referring to body roll). Spring rates and anti-roll bars are what
affect body roll. Most strut suspensions are more susceptible to camber
changes. Also, wider tires do not make up for geometry issues.

McPherson and Chapman strut suspensions are in wide use not because of their
superior handling characteristics, but because they are inexpensive to make
and lightweight. Most people know little or nothing about suspension
designs so it sounds good when the automaker points out a "MacPherson Strut"
suspension and so small and mid-size vehicles that are not actually
performance oriented will have them installed. You usually will not see
strut suspensions on performance and high-end vehicles, particularly those
with RWD. Over the years, engineers have made improvements to strut
suspension geometry to more closely approximate the better performing
suspensions and they are certainly acceptable for the majority of the
driving public, but a someone who is knowledgeable about automotive
suspensions or performance would not hint that a strut suspension is the
preferred design for any reason other than cost control.

 

What makes you think that there is no price differential at the consumer
end? Automakers examine the cost of every part and component in every
vehicle.

You sound like you have read a lot of auto enthusiast magazines but have not
had formal training in automotive design, engineering, or service or
experience working for an auto manufacturer. If you had, you would know
instinctively that maintaining tire contact with the ground is more
important in a low traction environment than in an environment where
traction is not as much of an issue. You would also know that a strut
suspension is not more or less susceptible to roll (I'm assuming that you
are referring to body roll). Spring rates and anti-roll bars are what
affect body roll. Most strut suspensions are more susceptible to camber
changes. Also, wider tires do not make up for geometry issues.

McPherson and Chapman strut suspensions are in wide use not because of their
superior handling characteristics, but because they are inexpensive to make
and lightweight. Most people know little or nothing about suspension
designs so it sounds good when the automaker points out a "MacPherson Strut"
suspension and so small and mid-size vehicles that are not actually
performance oriented will have them installed. You usually will not see
strut suspensions on performance and high-end vehicles, particularly those
with RWD. Over the years, engineers have made improvements to strut
suspension geometry to more closely approximate the better performing
suspensions and they are certainly acceptable for the majority of the
driving public, but a someone who is knowledgeable about automotive
suspensions or performance would not hint that a strut suspension is the
preferred design for any reason other than cost control.

 

open means free to turn one wheel relative to another. locked means
both wheels turn together.

that's not true. lsd's with clutches lose energy big time. but that's
not what i'm getting at: if a diff is locked, both wheels turn
together, one has traction, the other not. the one that doesn't is
simply scrubbing energy away.

 

open means free to turn one wheel relative to another. locked means
both wheels turn together.

that's not true. lsd's with clutches lose energy big time. but that's
not what i'm getting at: if a diff is locked, both wheels turn
together, one has traction, the other not. the one that doesn't is
simply scrubbing energy away.

 

er, the price i pay when i buy the car?

of course, but not a single vehicle manufacturer in the world sells on a
"cost plus" basis. they sell it for what they can get. different
manufacturers have different profit margins.

whoa there!!! let's go out on a wild-ass limb here and speculate that i
have some training and experience... wtf has that got to do with
instinct???

that is the most confused garbage i've read all week.

ok, so you have one little thing correct, cost, but the rest is missing
you by a country mile. i'd explain, but reading your "instinct"
comment, i think i'd be wasting my time.

 

er, the price i pay when i buy the car?

of course, but not a single vehicle manufacturer in the world sells on a
"cost plus" basis. they sell it for what they can get. different
manufacturers have different profit margins.

whoa there!!! let's go out on a wild-ass limb here and speculate that i
have some training and experience... wtf has that got to do with
instinct???

that is the most confused garbage i've read all week.

ok, so you have one little thing correct, cost, but the rest is missing
you by a country mile. i'd explain, but reading your "instinct"
comment, i think i'd be wasting my time.

 

If one thinks McPherson strut suspensions are so great you might want to
turn you front wheels to the extreme right or left, turn off the engine, and
go look at the different orientation of the two front wheels LOL


mike hunt

 

I thought McPherson struts were a combination spring and shock unit.
Wouldn't the orientation of the wheels have more to do with wheel alignment?