how rarely does...

A distributor go bad on a 95 civic? car ran fine then went to start it and
wouldn't start, turned over and all but no fire. had it towed to a garage
and they said its the distributor, the civic has like 88 k on it. just
wondering if this is common or a preview of more things to come

Steve

 

Unless the shaft breaks in two, or the bearings jam in which case your timing
belt will slip and destroy half your valve train, there's not much that
can go wrong with a distributor.

The parts that go inside or on the distribrutor, on the other hand, can and
often fail: position sensor, ignitor, coil, rotor, cap.

Saying "it's the distributor" is like saying "it's the engine". Fine. Fix
the damn thing, don't replace the entire unit.

 

The place that I had it towed to said their diagnosis was that it was the
distributor. So they replaced it, and while driving it home, it started to
spit, sputter and knock before finally dying. So I immediately called them
and said what happened, well they are coming to tow it back and start over.
My curiosity has got me now, if it is the same problem, then they didn't
properly diagnose it and that replacing the distributor wasn't necessary and
my thinking is that if that's the case, then I shouldn't have to pay for the
repairs that are going to be done to fix the problem, considering I have
spent $400.00 on it and it isn't right....any opinions?

Steve

 

Give them one more chance; refuse to pay another penny.

When it does again (and it will), take it to somewhere competant and
if you paid the $400 w/ a credit card, content it. In any case file a small
claims case for the $400 plus towing fees and any other incidental damage
(has to involve real money) you can think of.

 

Hello MrBlues,

Monday, June 7, 2004, 8:30:37 PM, you wrote:

M> The place that I had it towed to said their diagnosis was that it was the
M> distributor. So they replaced it, and while driving it home, it started to
M> spit, sputter and knock before finally dying. So I immediately called them
M> and said what happened, well they are coming to tow it back and start over.
M> My curiosity has got me now, if it is the same problem, then they didn't
M> properly diagnose it and that replacing the distributor wasn't necessary and
M> my thinking is that if that's the case, then I shouldn't have to pay for the
M> repairs that are going to be done to fix the problem, considering I have
M> spent $400.00 on it and it isn't right....any opinions?

M> Steve


M> ---
M> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
M> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
M> Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004


This may sound wrong, but take it in the spirit it is offered. If you
know nothing about your car and don't have a mechanic you trust: Auto
repair for Dummies. It is a great place to start to learn about your
car and at a beginning at not being taken by every shop you bring your
car to.

--Andrew

 

I agree with TCS that usually the whole distributor does not have to be
replaced. I suggest you take a quick peak at http://tinyurl.com/3dvaz . It shows
the distributor for a 95 Civic LX, auto trans. Maybe print this out and take it
to the shop with you. I'd say the most common distributor failure items are as
follows:

1. igniter unit assembly (a.k.a. "igniter" or "ignitor" or "ignition module"),
item 9.
2. coil assembly, ignition (a.k.a. "coil"), item 12
3. distributor cap, item 2
4. distributor housing (typically the bearings go? red dust in the cap is a
symptom?), item 4
5. distributor rotor, item 3

Ordinarily, only one of these should have been replaced, and the part name
should appear on your bill, along with the labor charge.

Ask the shop:

1. Which parts in the drawing were replaced?
2. What was the charge for each part, not counting labor?
3. How much labor time were you billed for, in hours?

Given the bill you received, most likely, they will claim either the ignitor,
coil, or housing was replaced.

So far, yes, it looks like you should not have to pay anything more.

I am a 1991 Civic owner, 153k miles. I've had the ignitor fail once (at 91k
miles and six years) and the coil failed two or three times (at something over
100k miles, IIRC). The early 1990s Civic ignitors had some kind of flaw, and an
official Honda recall (or similar) was put out on them. I doubt the 1995 Civics
have the same problem with ignitors. Failing distributor coils are a common
problem in all cars. Coils don't usually completely die. That is, with a coil
that is almost dead, the car may stall and will not re-start right away. Then an
hour later it will start again. IIRC, ignitors tend to fail completely--no
start, no how. That's what I remember when my ignitor failed. Two years ago my
car's distributor rotor kept coming off the distributor shaft. Ultimately, I,
not the stupid dealer service department, figured out that the screw hole that
held it in place had become stripped. After a lot of incompetence from a few
shops, I ended up with a new housing (which I may not have needed--I had a jury
rig fix which the shop said was the problem), because the rotor screw hole was
stripped. The shop transferred the old ignitor and old coil to the new housing,
as the ignitor and coil are expensive parts and there's no reason not to
transplant them.

Last time my coil failed, the shop strongly suggested I replace the ignitor too,
as they argued that the malfunctioning coil can screw up an ignitor. The ignitor
in the car was not OEM and had given me probably about it's lifetime of
satisfactory service, so I went ahead and replaced it myself.

Now I do all my own distributor work.

 

you are definately the coolest chick on this newsgroup

 

Take credit. ;-)

(But am I the only chick here?)

 

I've seen some 92-95 civics with bad sensors in the distributor. Honda
does not sell them separately. In that case you would need the complete
subassembly.

 

The only way I've heard of the distributor to go bad, usually on 90-93 or
so models is that shaft bearing seal goes bad and when you take the
distributor cap off there's red dust everywhere from the corrosion of the
bearing. The only other thing about a distributor which can go bad is the
oil seal at the base which allows oil to leak inside the body. Ask for
details of their diagnosis of why the distributor was blamed and the next
time, ask for the old parts to be returned to you - keeps 'em honest.

What's more likely is that the igniter, which is an electronic part inside
the distributor which replaces the contact points, is bad, or maybe even
the coil, but they can be replaced without replacing the distributor.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

What can also happen is water leaks when people remove the distributor cap
to "check" the rotor and cap.

When they put the cap back, it does not sit the same way on the gasket,
resulting in water ingress and eventually bearing failure.

With the distributor being sideways on the Civic and Integra, dew and rain
will enter the distributor housing if the seal is not perfect.

If you remove the cap for any reason, replace the gasket.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
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www.groups.google.com

 

Looks like I contributed to some "Internet wisdom" myself in this thread.

Out of curiosity, and so as not to spread misinformation any further, I
called my Japanese mechanic, who has run his own shop for some 24 years.

He says water leaks have absolutely nothing to do with distributor bearing
failure. It's simply ozone (see below) and bearing fatigue, and he sees it
all the time.

First symptom:
Slight "chirping" noise from distributor that does NOT resemble a loose
drive belt.

Second symptom:
Metal shavings from failing bearing short out electrical parts inside
distributor, resulting in Check Engine light coming on

Third symptom:
Bearing distintegrates. Distributor shaft snaps. Car stops.

All this happens within a day or so. Symptoms two and three happen within
minutes of each other.

The valves and camshaft will NOT be damaged. Any damage is restricted to
the distributor assembly, which is about $550 Canadian, complete with
wires, cap and rotor.

ALSO:

Out of curiosity, I asked about the "red dust" phenomenon. The "red dust"
you mention earlier has to do with ozone.

The distributor caps on those Hondas prone to this do not have very good
ventilation. As the sparks jump the gap from the rotor to the cap, ozone is
constantly generated and steel surfaces constantly exposed to the oxygen-
rich ozone. Thus, there is relatively litte "air" inside the distributor
during its operation. The atmosphere is mostly ozone.

The bearing, being steel, is susceptible to corrosion as its seal wears and
ozone enters the bearing more readily.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
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www.groups.google.com

 

Just what I was thinking!

My UK Rover 216GSi has a 16V Honda engine and I had a lot of
bother in that department. I even wrote up my experiences of
diagnosing it and fixing it in an article on my website in the
Miscellaneous section.

HTH

 

I've seen twin cam Honda engines (like those in the Integra) bend valves
when the distributor locked up, causing one cam to stop, and the timing belt
to slip.

 

My mechanic says he's never seen that. And he works on these things daily.

He says the distributor shaft is the weakest link in the chain.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
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www.groups.google.com

 

That's nice that he hasn't seen it happen... but I have. Not heard of. Not
someone mentioned that it might happen. I saw the car. Saw the damage.

 

Of course, as I wrote, he did NOT say it *could not* happen.

When I asked him, he said: "I've never seen that. The distributor shaft
usually breaks first".

I would guess that the probability would be low, otherwise with his volume,
he'd have seen it occasionally. I wonder if in your example there may have
been other contributory factors.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
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www.groups.google.com

 

He must not work on many hondas and is a fool if he thinks the timing belt's
teeth are tougher than the distributor shaft!

I've had it happen personally on a '93 acura integra (took out 14 of 16 valves)
and the mechanic I brought the car to says that year was infamous for bad
distributor bearings.

 

Well I called the garage this morning and they said that it was a faulty
base, that's what they replaced. So in the course of the conversation I had
mentioned problems with aftermarket parts and said that the local dealer had
one in stock, and after some silence they agreed that since the 1st one they
got was bad they would go that route. Just to verify that it was when they
called to say it was done and I went to pick it up, I had asked to see the
invoice from Honda for the part, not thinking they would show it, they did.
I will say that after being pissed yesterday I was totally impressed how
they resolved the problem.

Steve

 

Every day, every week, every month of every year. Japanese cars are ALL he
works on. And he's busy all the time. He and his guys do excellent work.

You forget inertia. The camshaft and its pulley have quite a bit more
inertia than the distributor shaft.

When the bearing locks up, the distributor shaft normally snaps before the
camshaft has slowed down.

My guy tells me the bad ones are '92 and up. Mine is a '91. Missed it all
by one year. :^)

He can even supply a new shaft with a new bearing pressed on for $150 Cdn.
He says it's easy to change. This thing is not available for my year since
the '90-'91 was not prone to premature bearing failure.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
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