How to temporary chill a car with non-working AC.

~^Johnny^~ · Oct 8, 2004

Does not.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
Click to expand...

Tegger® · Oct 9, 2004

Tegger® wrote:

But you're arguing with me, therefore I must have paid you. There, I've
run rings around your logic!
Click to expand...

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

Threeducks · Oct 9, 2004

~^Johnny^~ said:

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost) sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see.
Do you even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of
"heat" in this context where we have a large temperature drop, but no
change in the amount of energy contained by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
Click to expand...

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is you know nothing about refrigeration.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so well.

Sparky · Oct 9, 2004

Tegger® said:

Sparky <> sprach im

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks - can't beat the classics!

geoman · Dec 8, 2004

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!

Telstra · Jan 15, 2005

Polytropic

geoman said:

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
Click to expand...

wrote:

Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
cycle works.

You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
a
negligible friction loss?

Shame on you!

All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
loss of
fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
heat),
and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
involved
as well.

You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
cycle.

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
through the valve! Where would it go?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!
Click to expand...

Telstra · Jan 15, 2005

Irreversible Adiobatic with a slight flavour of isothermal

geoman said:

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
Click to expand...

wrote:

Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
cycle works.

You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
a
negligible friction loss?

Shame on you!

All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
loss of
fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
heat),
and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
involved
as well.

You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
cycle.

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
through the valve! Where would it go?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!
Click to expand...

Telstra · Jan 15, 2005

Wiredrawing without wire

geoman said:

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
Click to expand...

wrote:

Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
cycle works.

You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
a
negligible friction loss?

Shame on you!

All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
loss of
fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
heat),
and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
involved
as well.

You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
cycle.

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
through the valve! Where would it go?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!
Click to expand...

Telstra · Jan 15, 2005

Adiobatic without the orifice

geoman said:

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
Click to expand...

wrote:

Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
cycle works.

You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
a
negligible friction loss?

Shame on you!

All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
loss of
fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
heat),
and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
involved
as well.

You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
cycle.

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
through the valve! Where would it go?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!
Click to expand...

Telstra · Jan 16, 2005

Adiabatic without the Ole

geoman said:

Threeducks said:

~^Johnny^~ said:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
Click to expand...

wrote:

Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
cycle works.

You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
a
negligible friction loss?

Shame on you!

All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
loss of
fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
heat),
and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
involved
as well.

You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
cycle.

Uh, I was being facetious.
Believe me, I am NOT confused.
Click to expand...

Prove it.

I led. I am confused about your post!
Click to expand...

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.

Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
Of course, I was being a smartass.
I am having fun! Are you?

The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
through the valve! Where would it go?

=Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
loss!
When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
sunstantial
friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
cavitation, etc.
Click to expand...

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
even know how to do the calculation?

How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
by the fluid?

The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?

[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]

You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
you know nothing about refrigeration.

Bullshit.

YHBT, YL
(You have been trolled, you lost).

I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
Click to expand...

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

Go soak your head.
Click to expand...

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
well.
Click to expand...

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!
Click to expand...

How to temporary chill a car with non-working AC.

~^Johnny^~ Guest

Tegger® Guest

Threeducks Guest

Sparky Guest

geoman Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

2001 odyssey slider (non-electric) sticking

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Element Owners with windshield washers that stop working.......read==>

How to check out older car? Which car to keep?

non-mirror image tire tread on either side of the car, normal?

My car heater stopped working

How to temporary chill a car with non-working AC.

~^Johnny^~ Guest

Tegger® Guest

Threeducks Guest

Sparky Guest

geoman Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Telstra Guest

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

2001 odyssey slider (non-electric) sticking

Non Starting Civic

Element Owners with windshield washers that stop working.......read==>

How to check out older car? Which car to keep?

non-mirror image tire tread on either side of the car, normal?

My car heater stopped working

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