Hybrid cars

With the rising gas prices, we hear more and more about this type of
car today. However, I am still not very sure about the reception of
this type of car. My friend owned a Honda Insight, and he has been
driving it for over 5 years now. He never complained and he said that
everything run perfectly so far. However, when I asked whether it is
worth the money, he thinks that from the economical stands point, his
car ended up more costly for him. He said that his car insurance itself
did not offset what he gained from the fuel economy. He doesn't know
what other extra costs for extra maintenance, as his car now reached
the 100K zone.
Today, I only see almost none of the Honda Insight (except his). I saw
just a number of Toyota Prius.I have never since a Ford Escape Hybrid,
although they bragged about it since last fall. Does Escape Hybrid
actually reach the consumer market? Strangely, I did see a Lexus RX
400h in our rather small city the other day. I read in the news that
Honda Civic and Accord have now a hybrid version. The new Toyota Camry
hybrid is coming up. GM and Ford promise for hybrid cars (never see on
the street yet).
The bottom line, do people really care to get a higher price hybrid
cars? Does their reception only reflect the "environmentally
conscience" approach nowadays, or do people really want to buy a
hybrid?
Diesel car has never been popular in this part of the world. I wonder
if hybrid car is just another one of those items, where people buy to
make an environmental statement, or a "fad" of the 20th century.
How do hybrid cars really compare with regular cars in terms of: gas
consumptions, car insurance cost, maintenance costs, easy access for
repair in car garages, solving the world's environmental problems.
So far, I still see that hybrid cars receptions are still rather muted
or muzzled. I notice that people buy them just to show off, or just to
make statement that they are not gas guzzlers. Is this true? Would
like to hear some opinion and discussion.

 

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Not all hybrids are created equal. Toyota did it VERY well in the
Prius. Some of the others are hybrid in name only, having very little
effect on milage. I think that is why you see so many Priuses.

Many of the new "hybrids" are trying to cash in on the term 'hybrid'
without going through the motions. Some are intended only to boost
performance without any penalty in fuel usage.

I think if there are ones that hit the market that are true hybrids like
the Prius, they will be successful. This will depend on the price of
fuel, obviously, but with Iran threatening economic punishment (read-
withholding oil) for our concerns on their nuke program, I think we are
likely to see hybrids become successes.

 

Insurance can be a serious problem.
The Honda Insight is aluminum bodied, and my son's insurance company in
California ruled his car to be an 'exotic'. Cost went up a bunch.

He has no complaints with the Insight, and claims 80 mpg on the highway
when driving at optimum speed. (About 72 mph, he claims.)

 

I work for the NY Transit Authority in which large numbers of Ford Escapes
are being used as patrol cars. They DO NOT get good milage. Every one of
the people I've spoken to say that their mileage is no more than 17 miles to
the gallon. On the other hand I own a Honda civic hybrid. At least until I
put decent tires on it, I got about 44mpg. However, the low rolling
resistance (read cheap, lightweight) tires do add significantly to the mpg
rating. Once I put on a good set of Michelin all seasons, the mileage
averages about 38mpg, which while still respectable is far from what is
advertised. I'm hoping at this point that once I've reached 10k miles,
things will get a bit better.

 

Same son bought a Civic hybrid for his wife, and she got pretty bad mileage
at first. It turned out to be more her driving technique than anything
else.
I think she gets up to about 54 mpg now.

 

I've tried adjusting my technique by coasting more etc. However, the tires
seem to have made the biggest difference. The Michelins have a large grippy
contact point, whereas the lightweight tires had little. This was evident
in the duration and number of times the antilock brakes came on. At this
point they never come on. As a sidebar, I found the same to be true with my
other car; an 05 element. When I took off the stock tires for a higher
grade, the braking and handling improved whereas the mileage decreased. All
told, it wasn't a bad tradeoff.

 

It's all about image for most of those buyers.

They don't care what it costs for them to have a certain "look" about
them as they drive down the road.

There's a reason the Toyota Prius has acquired the nickname "Toyota
Pious".

 

It's high time to kiss fossil fuel burners goodbye all together.
Not to be dumping the vehicles in favor of so called hybrids, but
rather convert them to burn alcohol.
The farmer could grow enough grain and veggies to not only make cheap
fuel, but have more than enough to supply every vehicle with ample fuel
for years.
Besides, you can distill your own fuel right in your own home.
Instead of fuel tankers running about the countryside, you'd see more
grain haulers heading off to the local distillery.
A servvice station could have it's own distillery right on the
property.
Which cuts down on the cost of transportation.
You could even have your own little co-op thing for the members.

Did you know that OPEC supplies less than 50% of this nation's fuel?
So why does the minorty dictate what you pay for it?
It's time to fight back and make OPEC suffer awhile.
Go wtih alcohol!

 

Do the math.

Initial Cost/Financing/Insurance/Maintenance vs. fuel efficiency.

I'll betcha that the hybrid presents little advantage when looking at
the big picture...

JT

 

I also doubt the long term cost advantage. Same son just bought a bicycle.
Now THAT is cost efficient, if he uses it.

 

The current crop of hybrids are overpriced when compared to gasoline or
diesel alternatives. The Toyota hybrid is much more expensive than a
Corolla and the Corolla has far more room for people and luggage.
Hybrids have the potential to be even more expensive as sophisticated
charging, power and switching circuits go bad and battery packs have to
be replaced.

I see the hybrid as little more than a fad.

 

Having ridden in my folks' '04 Corolla and my uncle's '05 Prius, I have to
disagree. The Prius has a bit more interior room than the Corolla, and a
quite a bit more cargo capacity since it is a hatchback. You must be
thinking of the old Prius which was smaller than the current one.

 

Another reason people buy the hybrids is so they can drive solo in the
HOV lanes. The same people that fight paying a toll a trip at a time,
will pay a premium in one lump so they can use the HOV lanes. They must
not like EZ-Pass or carrying pocket change? [:-0]

Look at the concentration of hybrids and look for a nearby HOV lane.

 

That's debatable. USDA funded studies suggest that if all agricultural
land that can be dedicated to production of plants for ethanol, we would
only be able to get about 2 percent of the country's total energy. There
would still be a need for fossil fuels.

 

But can we trust USDA studies? With the anti-science bent of the current
administration, and Big Oil's hands in the administration's pockets, there
is a real chance the studies are totally bunk.

 

That study may have been tainted to show that fossil fuel is more
appropriate than natural fuels.
I'm not speaking of supplying a city's power.
That can be done the old fashioned way with water and turbines.
Alochol fuel is replenishable and therfor there would be abundance of
fuel for vehicles for as long as there is farm land to produce the raw
products.
If fossil fuel is such a big deal, why don't we have cars that get
100mpg?
The technology for doing so is here and has been here since the 60's.
The auto manufacturers do not want YOU to have such a vehicle because
that would mean selling less fuel.

There is also current technology on the road, in experimental form,
that is showing how viable fuel cells are.
One company is testing a hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell.
To replenish your supply of hydrogen, you simply pull up to the pump
and insert the nozzle same as you do now with gas.
The hydrogen is created from water, which is housed in a container at
the pumping site.
As a benefit to the atmosphere, your by-product is water.

There are alternatives to fossil fuel.

Way back in the mid 60's we were told we would be out of fossil fuel by
1990.
In the 70's we were told there would be no more in 2000.

It all boils down to whom you want to believe in.
And when all else fails, create your own fuels.

 

Because we have dumb turds buying 300+ hp SUV's that cannot get
more than 15-17-

Not really. It is because horsepower is directly related to energy content
of the fuel, and you cannot have high powered guzzlers and still get 100
mpg.

And where, pray tell, do you think you are going to get hydrogen...

We aren't going to run out completely, at least not yet. But are you
ready to pay $15-20 per gallon that it WILL cost, if it is even available,
when the supply actually is lower than the global demand.

There is NO light on the horizon. It is a matter of when, not if.

 

Because we have dumb turds buying 300+ hp SUV's that cannot get
more than 15-17-[/QUOTE]

It's not so much the horsepower, but the weight, gearing, and aerodynamics
(or lack therof) that are inherent in truck-based SUV designs. The LS2
engine (400 HP) from GM gets over 25 MPG in a car. A buddy of mine has a
Dodge Durango with a 318 V8, I think it puts out about 220 HP, and gets
around 15 MPG.

Like I pointed out, horsepower is not the main culprit. I drive a Cavalier
with a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder engine pumping out a whopping 115 horsepower. I
get around 30 MPG on the highway. I know a guy with a mid-90s Chevy Caprice
with a 5.0 liter V8 and he gets almost as good as I get.

Another culprit is the automatic transmission. I would probably get around
35-40 MPG if my car had a manual.

 

Because we have dumb turds buying 300+ hp SUV's that cannot get
more than 15-17-[/QUOTE]

....to drive themselves to work and back, 40 miles away.

Or to drive the kids to soccer practice.

 

I have a FI 318 that gets me 17-18 mpg. But horsepower IS an issue. You
cannot get horsepower without burning fuel. You can optimize mileage by
not developing full advertised horsepower at the operating speed. I've done
the math. There is no free lunch.

Weight, gearing and aerodynamics are clearly issues as well.

Yes, you pointed it out, but are not quite correct. To get excellent
mileage you
have to drop actual horsepower, decrease weight, improve aerodynamics, etc.
The automatic transmission, which USED to be recognized as a mileage culprit
is not that any longer. An automatic, properly set up and functioning, can
deliver better mileage than you can get with a similarly geared standard.