I just test drove a 1997 VTEC Prelude. I can't say I noticed any huge performance gap between it an

That's about the size of it.
I fully agree that VTecs are techincally excellent engines, and if you want
big-power from a small NA lump, they're the only choice.
But why bother ? You can have MUCH more power from a Turbo engine instead,
and it's a much nicer drive.
VTec may well be plenty better than your average NA engine - but it's no
match for forced induction !

 

That's about the size of it.
I fully agree that VTecs are techincally excellent engines, and if you want
big-power from a small NA lump, they're the only choice.
But why bother ? You can have MUCH more power from a Turbo engine instead,
and it's a much nicer drive.
VTec may well be plenty better than your average NA engine - but it's no
match for forced induction !

 

Well that's a matter of taste and *your* preference. It appears you have a
turbo, something that many would rather pass on. Anyway none of the
marques which do turbos appeal to me for various reasons.

Do you have to make such a mess, by carving posts you're replying to into
bite sized chunks you can handle?

True market value.

That's your taste/preference again then. There's no need to get "jerky"...
once the art of gear changing is mastered.

Not me - I want nothing to do with turbos.

<snigger>

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Well that's a matter of taste and *your* preference. It appears you have a
turbo, something that many would rather pass on. Anyway none of the
marques which do turbos appeal to me for various reasons.

Do you have to make such a mess, by carving posts you're replying to into
bite sized chunks you can handle?

True market value.

That's your taste/preference again then. There's no need to get "jerky"...
once the art of gear changing is mastered.

Not me - I want nothing to do with turbos.

<snigger>

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

While there are many marques which sound/feel like they're being flogged at
higher RPM, a properly engineered engine/drivetrain does not have to
conform to that dogma.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

While there are many marques which sound/feel like they're being flogged at
higher RPM, a properly engineered engine/drivetrain does not have to
conform to that dogma.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Well except for GM, all the car makers are lower than Ford (in the
US). The point is that 32 years ago, no one even knew that Honda made
cars. Now they sell about a third as many as Ford does and at much
better profit margins. That wouldn't have happened if they drove like
shit.

Well, what car do you like?

No doubt, but many also buy them for the way they drive.

You might choose to rev it less, but so what? If I want to go fast I
rev it. The turbos have some down side too. I don't know if
turbo-lag is much of a problem these days but you have more
maintenance and the real prospect of major long term problems with a
turbo.

As for your 2.0L example; the fact is that you have to buy the whole
car, not just the turbo. There aren't really that many turbo cars
available (at least in the US). Even fewer if you aren't willing to
pay $40K+. Of those left, it's hard to see that they offer
performance uniformly better than roughly comparable NA cars.

I like the WRX. In fact I would put it in the top three choices if I
were going to buy a new car right now. But how about the Turbo
Beetle? With 20 more hp (and $4K more expensive) it should beat the
pants off a Civic Si. But surprise, the performance of the two cars
is virtually identical and the Civic gets a whopping 6 more mpg.

Or compare an Audi TT to an S2000. The TT costs about $4K more, has 6%
less horsepower and the S2000 just kills it in performance. (The TT
does get better fuel economy.) I realize that these are not exactly
comparable, but that's kind of the point. You can't buy an engine
from one manufacturer and a chassis from another.

What's left? Mitsubishi? Based on experiences of friends I wouldn't
touch one. PT Cruiser? Saabrolet? I'd reconsider the Mitsubishi.

But 99% of buyers don't tune (i.e. modify) their engines. About half
of the rest don't do it very well.

 

Well except for GM, all the car makers are lower than Ford (in the
US). The point is that 32 years ago, no one even knew that Honda made
cars. Now they sell about a third as many as Ford does and at much
better profit margins. That wouldn't have happened if they drove like
shit.

Well, what car do you like?

No doubt, but many also buy them for the way they drive.

You might choose to rev it less, but so what? If I want to go fast I
rev it. The turbos have some down side too. I don't know if
turbo-lag is much of a problem these days but you have more
maintenance and the real prospect of major long term problems with a
turbo.

As for your 2.0L example; the fact is that you have to buy the whole
car, not just the turbo. There aren't really that many turbo cars
available (at least in the US). Even fewer if you aren't willing to
pay $40K+. Of those left, it's hard to see that they offer
performance uniformly better than roughly comparable NA cars.

I like the WRX. In fact I would put it in the top three choices if I
were going to buy a new car right now. But how about the Turbo
Beetle? With 20 more hp (and $4K more expensive) it should beat the
pants off a Civic Si. But surprise, the performance of the two cars
is virtually identical and the Civic gets a whopping 6 more mpg.

Or compare an Audi TT to an S2000. The TT costs about $4K more, has 6%
less horsepower and the S2000 just kills it in performance. (The TT
does get better fuel economy.) I realize that these are not exactly
comparable, but that's kind of the point. You can't buy an engine
from one manufacturer and a chassis from another.

What's left? Mitsubishi? Based on experiences of friends I wouldn't
touch one. PT Cruiser? Saabrolet? I'd reconsider the Mitsubishi.

But 99% of buyers don't tune (i.e. modify) their engines. About half
of the rest don't do it very well.

 

Don't get me wrong, i like Honda's I'd have a civic type R, i was just
saying, i imagine a Turbo with the same power would be a much sweeter drive.
Luckily i'm still young and don't mine revving

 

Don't get me wrong, i like Honda's I'd have a civic type R, i was just
saying, i imagine a Turbo with the same power would be a much sweeter drive.
Luckily i'm still young and don't mine revving

 

me??

 

me??

 

Sorry about the previous post of mine, hit send before I engaged my brain!
(c:

TMV? True Market Value of what? The UK car (Rover 600Ti) Nom's talking
about is pretty cheap, and is worth a very small proportion of its new cost
once the first owner has taken the hit of tax and depreciation. For a car
of similar power size and specification nothing really comes close here.
For some it would be below TMV if I understand what you mean by it. If you
mean the TMV new, I cant comment as I dont know what price they were.

Douglas

 

Sorry about the previous post of mine, hit send before I engaged my brain!
(c:

TMV? True Market Value of what? The UK car (Rover 600Ti) Nom's talking
about is pretty cheap, and is worth a very small proportion of its new cost
once the first owner has taken the hit of tax and depreciation. For a car
of similar power size and specification nothing really comes close here.
For some it would be below TMV if I understand what you mean by it. If you
mean the TMV new, I cant comment as I dont know what price they were.

Douglas

 

While there are many marques which sound/feel like they're being

Sound has got nothing to do with it driving like shit unless it's
revving at over 6,000rpm.

Nice change of subject tho, smoothly done

 

While there are many marques which sound/feel like they're being

Sound has got nothing to do with it driving like shit unless it's
revving at over 6,000rpm.

Nice change of subject tho, smoothly done

 

It's standard enough if you're snipping the bits you're not replying to. It
allows one to make far more concise posts.

True market value is what people are generally willing to pay for something.
What you think it's worth is pretty irrelevant. Things don't cost more than
true market value unless you're an idiot with no idea what the thing you're
buying is worse. FYI the model of turbo car both Lordy and Nom own is a very
good buy.

100bhp / litre with masses of torque VS 100bhp a litre with relatively
little torque? I know which I'd rather have. In a decent car the turbo lag
shouldn't be a problem compared to having to change down 2 gears to get any
go in a high revving motor. Most people do not want to be driving around at
6k RPM when they're waiting to overtake some old dodderer. Of course, if I
were picking I'd have a >3000cc straight six.

 

It's standard enough if you're snipping the bits you're not replying to. It
allows one to make far more concise posts.

True market value is what people are generally willing to pay for something.
What you think it's worth is pretty irrelevant. Things don't cost more than
true market value unless you're an idiot with no idea what the thing you're
buying is worse. FYI the model of turbo car both Lordy and Nom own is a very
good buy.

100bhp / litre with masses of torque VS 100bhp a litre with relatively
little torque? I know which I'd rather have. In a decent car the turbo lag
shouldn't be a problem compared to having to change down 2 gears to get any
go in a high revving motor. Most people do not want to be driving around at
6k RPM when they're waiting to overtake some old dodderer. Of course, if I
were picking I'd have a >3000cc straight six.

 

By no means is it standard to snip out short phrases and sentences - uhhh,
there's a batter way! It turns a "thread" into a disjointed unreadable
mess which cannot be answered without making things worse.

Like I should have said in my previous reply, look up TMV - it doesn't mean
what you think it does. Whether a turbo is a "good buy" to you, Lordy, or
Nom - given your chameleon presence here, one wonders if they are, in fact,
different entities - is not of any consequence to me. I can't speak for
others.

"Decent"... "turbo" do not go together from my POV... but I do no pretend
to speak for "most people". It sounds like you should maybe consider
moving to the U.S. and getting yourself a 5L V8.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

By no means is it standard to snip out short phrases and sentences - uhhh,
there's a batter way! It turns a "thread" into a disjointed unreadable
mess which cannot be answered without making things worse.

Like I should have said in my previous reply, look up TMV - it doesn't mean
what you think it does. Whether a turbo is a "good buy" to you, Lordy, or
Nom - given your chameleon presence here, one wonders if they are, in fact,
different entities - is not of any consequence to me. I can't speak for
others.

"Decent"... "turbo" do not go together from my POV... but I do no pretend
to speak for "most people". It sounds like you should maybe consider
moving to the U.S. and getting yourself a 5L V8.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??