Import owners are to blame for the recession

You seem to have forgotten that this summer Civics, Corollas, Camrys
and Accords were all outselling F150s. The Urban Idiot Cowboys stop
buying pickups when gas is above $3.50.

 

Don't get all mathy on Hunter. He's old and perpetually drunk.

 

But I think they have...
For example my 2002 Dodge Caravan has been the most reliable vehicle
that I've ever owned.
Aside from normal wear items like brake pads, it's only needed one
repair in 120,000 miles, that being the fan belt tensioner.

My '87 Honda Accord needed the complete exhaust system, an alternator
and the two front axles replaced before that mileage.

The Detroit Big Three are being judged by the vehicles they made 30
years ago.

Ford had more vehicles in the J.D. Powers to ten quality rating than
any other maker. Lincoln comes in tops with owner satisfation.

The big three also make quite a few car models that get over 28 miles
per gallon.

Their problem is the cost disadvantages that they face.
It costs them about $1500/more per vehicle, not just in labor but in
legacy medical or pension costs, than the Japanese makers with
assembly plants in the USA.

Chevrolet sells a Cobalt for a base price of about $14000 to compete
with the Japanese and looses money on every one they sell.
Ford and Chrysler's entry level/economy cars have the same problem.
I suspect that Ford also looses money on every Focus they sell. Yet,
its a car with great economy, safety and reliability ratings.

Doug

 

I had a bit more than that with a couple of my '92s, but then one had
229,000 when I got it. The other one had broken rocker towers, a common
problem on the early 3.3 L engine, but one Chrysler KNEW about!!! (It's on
the web...)

I also had an LHS, given to me with 148,000 on it. Ran it up to 169,000
and traded it for $600 towards a Scion. Still kicking myself over that.
For $600 I should have kept it. It was a good running car, and I still
miss it after 2 years!

Yup. They got a reputation for junk while Japan Inc was building a
reputation for quality.

My Mom will never own another Ford or Chevy again.

 

The Detroit Big Three are being judged by the vehicles they made 30

Bullshirt! My 95 S-10 was just as bad as anything we owned in the 60's.
They still haven't changed their attitude. I had rust on the vehicle in
some of the oddest spots within a year of owning the vehicle, which I bought
new.

Never again a Detroit rustbucket.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

 

GERMAN VWs are also known for their longeivity, dependabiltiy, and gas
mileage. More current female and or pregnant driver cars are the exception.
Japanese vehicles did not hold the crown on this until VW gave in to fickle
Americans they did market research on. No, I'm not talking the Beetle even
though its demise went that way as well. VW lost its way circa 95.
--
Dave

2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
high.

How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?

 

An extension of an exaggeration. FACTORY VW parts are expensive, as are
Toyoto and Nissan. Repair in a VW dealership is always and had always been
longer than most others. A true VW afficiando has the latitude and ability
(with parts) to effect repairs. As does a Toyota or Nissan owner.

Late VWs are relatively poor on mpgs, not worth the monies unless you're
pregnant or a young female where you get emmotionallly off on such a
vehicle. Some prior VWs, 350K was just breaking the vehicle in, male or
female driver. Many Toyotas and Nissans (Datsuns) have great life
expectancy as well. But, I would not put that rubber stamp on all of them.
--
Dave

2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
high.

How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?

 

You reap what you sow.

JD Powers is very short term. Owner Satisfaction is very subjective.
Most people I know keep their cars longer than three years and judge
on other criteria.

But no one wants their cars.

 

He did not say "how bad Japanese care are". You did by YOUR reply. But,
you can continue to convince yourself otherwise....
--
Dave

2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
high.

How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?

 

"Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components for
hybrid vehicles are covered for 8 years/100,000
miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions
warranty. Refer to applicable Owner’s Warranty
Information booklet for details."

 

Not true. The sales were never "bad (well except in Canada). You need
to consider that the Five Hundred and Freestyle were essentially the
same vehicle, except the Freestyle was the station wagon version (but
nobody wants to call a vehicle a station wagon these days).

2007 Five Hundred Sales - 35,146
2007 New Taurus Sales - 33,032
2007 Taurus + 500 Sales - 68,178
2007 Freestyle Sales - 23,765
2007 Taurus X Sales - 18,345
2007 Freestyle + Taurus X Sales - 42,110
2007 - 500/Taurus/Freestyle/Taurus X Total Sales - 110,288

2006 Five Hundred Sales - 84,218
2006 Freestyle Sales - 58,602
2006 500 + Freestyle Sales - 142,820

2005 Five Hundred Sales - 107,932
2005 Freestyle Sales - 76,739
2005 500 + Freestyle Sales - 184,671

The combined numbers for the Five Hundred and Freestyle make it one of
Ford's better selling cars for 2005 and 2006 (more sold than Crown
Victorias in 2005 and 2006, more sold than Mustangs in 2005, almost as
many as the Taurus in 2005, and about 80% as many as the Taurus in
2006). For 2007 sales were down, but certainly the name change
confused things. But a sales rate over 110,000 is nothing to be
sneezed at. It is about twice the rate of the Toyota Avalon, Toyota's
pathetic entry into the large car class.

Ed

 

This doesn't mean that batteries are an issue.

 

But Consumer Reports isn't, and even THEY agree that Ford's quality is now
competitive.

Derek

 

And if you listen carefully to the ads, it says "Initial quality." That
means, the quality experience of the owner when he first takes delivery of
the car.

 

FYI - Consumer Reports is unscientific and their surveys are, from a
statistical viewpoint, worthless. That said, I'd agree that they do
have some value as generalized surveys.

Also, I'd agree that Ford quality has increased dramatically in some
areas. In fact, Ford was the only one of the Big-3 to adopt "total
quality management" some time ago - albeit still 30 years too late. It
is worth noting that they are not currently asking for tax payer
money. That's a good thing IMHO.

All that said though, it's not actual quality that is the issue. It's
the public perception of quality. They have a long way to go before
they start to gain a reputation for quality though and they've had
some big missteps that have reduced that reputation back the starting
point for many buyers. The general public's perception, based on many
years of Ford producing low quality cars, is still one of poor quality
products.

 

I wasn't inferring that. Just posting the warranty info as there was
some discussion of the exact warranty on the batteries.

 

If you keep getting burned over and over again, you learn not to put your
hand on a hot stove.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

 

It never seems to hurt Toyota. They have produced some of the least
reliable, lowest quality cars ever sold in this country, yet they now
seem to be the "gold" standard for quality. Are people's memories that
short?

Ed

 

"Japanese brands are still the ones to beat. Of the 47 vehicles with
the highest predicted reliability, 39 are Japanese. Of those, all but
seven are made by Toyota or Honda."

"Twenty of the "Least Reliable" vehicles are domestic models and just
five, all from Nissan, are Japanese."

 

Is this based on perception, or actual facts?

Ed