Import owners are to blame for the recession

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by buydomestic, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. You seem to have forgotten that this summer Civics, Corollas, Camrys
    and Accords were all outselling F150s. The Urban Idiot Cowboys stop
    buying pickups when gas is above $3.50.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Dec 14, 2008

  2. Don't get all mathy on Hunter. He's old and perpetually drunk.
     
    JoeSpareBedroom, Dec 14, 2008
  3. buydomestic

    Doug Guest


    But I think they have...
    For example my 2002 Dodge Caravan has been the most reliable vehicle
    that I've ever owned.
    Aside from normal wear items like brake pads, it's only needed one
    repair in 120,000 miles, that being the fan belt tensioner.

    My '87 Honda Accord needed the complete exhaust system, an alternator
    and the two front axles replaced before that mileage.

    The Detroit Big Three are being judged by the vehicles they made 30
    years ago.

    Ford had more vehicles in the J.D. Powers to ten quality rating than
    any other maker. Lincoln comes in tops with owner satisfation.

    The big three also make quite a few car models that get over 28 miles
    per gallon.

    Their problem is the cost disadvantages that they face.
    It costs them about $1500/more per vehicle, not just in labor but in
    legacy medical or pension costs, than the Japanese makers with
    assembly plants in the USA.

    Chevrolet sells a Cobalt for a base price of about $14000 to compete
    with the Japanese and looses money on every one they sell.
    Ford and Chrysler's entry level/economy cars have the same problem.
    I suspect that Ford also looses money on every Focus they sell. Yet,
    its a car with great economy, safety and reliability ratings.

    Doug
     
    Doug, Dec 14, 2008
  4. I had a bit more than that with a couple of my '92s, but then one had
    229,000 when I got it. The other one had broken rocker towers, a common
    problem on the early 3.3 L engine, but one Chrysler KNEW about!!! (It's on
    the web...)

    I also had an LHS, given to me with 148,000 on it. Ran it up to 169,000
    and traded it for $600 towards a Scion. Still kicking myself over that.
    For $600 I should have kept it. It was a good running car, and I still
    miss it after 2 years!


    Yup. They got a reputation for junk while Japan Inc was building a
    reputation for quality.

    My Mom will never own another Ford or Chevy again.
     
    Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B, Dec 14, 2008
  5. The Detroit Big Three are being judged by the vehicles they made 30
    Bullshirt! My 95 S-10 was just as bad as anything we owned in the 60's.
    They still haven't changed their attitude. I had rust on the vehicle in
    some of the oddest spots within a year of owning the vehicle, which I bought
    new.

    Never again a Detroit rustbucket.

    Sir Charles the Curmudgeon
     
    CharlesTheCurmudgeon, Dec 14, 2008
  6. buydomestic

    Dioclese Guest

    GERMAN VWs are also known for their longeivity, dependabiltiy, and gas
    mileage. More current female and or pregnant driver cars are the exception.
    Japanese vehicles did not hold the crown on this until VW gave in to fickle
    Americans they did market research on. No, I'm not talking the Beetle even
    though its demise went that way as well. VW lost its way circa 95.
    --
    Dave

    2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
    high.

    How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
    and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?
     
    Dioclese, Dec 15, 2008
  7. buydomestic

    Dioclese Guest

    An extension of an exaggeration. FACTORY VW parts are expensive, as are
    Toyoto and Nissan. Repair in a VW dealership is always and had always been
    longer than most others. A true VW afficiando has the latitude and ability
    (with parts) to effect repairs. As does a Toyota or Nissan owner.

    Late VWs are relatively poor on mpgs, not worth the monies unless you're
    pregnant or a young female where you get emmotionallly off on such a
    vehicle. Some prior VWs, 350K was just breaking the vehicle in, male or
    female driver. Many Toyotas and Nissans (Datsuns) have great life
    expectancy as well. But, I would not put that rubber stamp on all of them.
    --
    Dave

    2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
    high.

    How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
    and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?
     
    Dioclese, Dec 15, 2008
  8. buydomestic

    me Guest

    You reap what you sow.
    JD Powers is very short term. Owner Satisfaction is very subjective.
    Most people I know keep their cars longer than three years and judge
    on other criteria.
    But no one wants their cars.
     
    me, Dec 15, 2008
  9. buydomestic

    Dioclese Guest

    He did not say "how bad Japanese care are". You did by YOUR reply. But,
    you can continue to convince yourself otherwise....
    --
    Dave

    2008 Focus , 5 spd no frills coupe- to date per fillup - 33 mpg low - 39 mpg
    high.

    How much CO footprint to remove and transport basic materials for batteries
    and to manufacture the batteries for the Ford Fusion and any other hybrid?
     
    Dioclese, Dec 15, 2008
  10. buydomestic

    me Guest

    "Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components for
    hybrid vehicles are covered for 8 years/100,000
    miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions
    warranty. Refer to applicable Owner’s Warranty
    Information booklet for details."
     
    me, Dec 15, 2008
  11. buydomestic

    C. E. White Guest

    Not true. The sales were never "bad (well except in Canada). You need
    to consider that the Five Hundred and Freestyle were essentially the
    same vehicle, except the Freestyle was the station wagon version (but
    nobody wants to call a vehicle a station wagon these days).

    2007 Five Hundred Sales - 35,146
    2007 New Taurus Sales - 33,032
    2007 Taurus + 500 Sales - 68,178
    2007 Freestyle Sales - 23,765
    2007 Taurus X Sales - 18,345
    2007 Freestyle + Taurus X Sales - 42,110
    2007 - 500/Taurus/Freestyle/Taurus X Total Sales - 110,288

    2006 Five Hundred Sales - 84,218
    2006 Freestyle Sales - 58,602
    2006 500 + Freestyle Sales - 142,820

    2005 Five Hundred Sales - 107,932
    2005 Freestyle Sales - 76,739
    2005 500 + Freestyle Sales - 184,671

    The combined numbers for the Five Hundred and Freestyle make it one of
    Ford's better selling cars for 2005 and 2006 (more sold than Crown
    Victorias in 2005 and 2006, more sold than Mustangs in 2005, almost as
    many as the Taurus in 2005, and about 80% as many as the Taurus in
    2006). For 2007 sales were down, but certainly the name change
    confused things. But a sales rate over 110,000 is nothing to be
    sneezed at. It is about twice the rate of the Toyota Avalon, Toyota's
    pathetic entry into the large car class.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Dec 15, 2008
  12. buydomestic

    Jeff Guest

    This doesn't mean that batteries are an issue.
     
    Jeff, Dec 16, 2008
  13. buydomestic

    Derek Gee Guest

    But Consumer Reports isn't, and even THEY agree that Ford's quality is now
    competitive.

    Derek
     
    Derek Gee, Dec 17, 2008
  14. And if you listen carefully to the ads, it says "Initial quality." That
    means, the quality experience of the owner when he first takes delivery of
    the car.
     
    Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B, Dec 17, 2008
  15. buydomestic

    me Guest

    FYI - Consumer Reports is unscientific and their surveys are, from a
    statistical viewpoint, worthless. That said, I'd agree that they do
    have some value as generalized surveys.

    Also, I'd agree that Ford quality has increased dramatically in some
    areas. In fact, Ford was the only one of the Big-3 to adopt "total
    quality management" some time ago - albeit still 30 years too late. It
    is worth noting that they are not currently asking for tax payer
    money. That's a good thing IMHO.

    All that said though, it's not actual quality that is the issue. It's
    the public perception of quality. They have a long way to go before
    they start to gain a reputation for quality though and they've had
    some big missteps that have reduced that reputation back the starting
    point for many buyers. The general public's perception, based on many
    years of Ford producing low quality cars, is still one of poor quality
    products.
     
    me, Dec 17, 2008
  16. buydomestic

    me Guest

    I wasn't inferring that. Just posting the warranty info as there was
    some discussion of the exact warranty on the batteries.
     
    me, Dec 17, 2008
  17. If you keep getting burned over and over again, you learn not to put your
    hand on a hot stove.

    Sir Charles the Curmudgeon
     
    CharlesTheCurmudgeon, Dec 17, 2008
  18. buydomestic

    C. E. White Guest

    It never seems to hurt Toyota. They have produced some of the least
    reliable, lowest quality cars ever sold in this country, yet they now
    seem to be the "gold" standard for quality. Are people's memories that
    short?

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Dec 17, 2008
  19. buydomestic

    Gosi Guest

    "Japanese brands are still the ones to beat. Of the 47 vehicles with
    the highest predicted reliability, 39 are Japanese. Of those, all but
    seven are made by Toyota or Honda."

    "Twenty of the "Least Reliable" vehicles are domestic models and just
    five, all from Nissan, are Japanese."
     
    Gosi, Dec 17, 2008
  20. buydomestic

    C. E. White Guest

    Is this based on perception, or actual facts?

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Dec 17, 2008
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