Integra Won't Crank

95 Integra LS (92K mi) - New battery, New ignition switch (Key
cylinder), Verified working main relay and fuel pump.

A few times a week, there is dead silence when I turn the key. I would
do this a few times and sometimes on the 3rd - 10th try, the car would
start, sometimes not. Any ideas on where to start?

 

That happened to my '94 GS-R a couple years ago. It gradually got
worse and worse. Turned out to be the starter.

 

Sounds like a zorched starter solenoid.

I don't know anything about a 95 Integra. Sometimes the solenoid can be
changed seperately from the starter, others are integral, and the whole
kaboodle must be exchanged. In a pinch, you may be able to disassemble
the solenoid and (partially) repair the contacts by scraping them to
bare metal.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I have done my share of research and have
come up with either:

1) Starter Solenoid (Can someone tell me which part this is in the
link?)

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INTEGRA&catcgry2=1995&catcgry3=4DR+LS&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=STARTER%2BMOTOR%2B%28DENSO%29&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no

or,

2) Ignition Unit Assembly

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INTEGRA&catcgry2=1995&catcgry3=4DR+LS&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR%2B%28TEC%29&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no

How do I go about troubleshooting this issue? Thanks in advance. I'll
make sure post the learnings for this group.

 

I don't see it. Look at one of the 'integra starter solenoid' units on
Ebay. It looks like the units are possibly stand-alone, physicaly
removed from the starter. This is a good thing in that it will likely
be easier to access.

Working or not, the solenoid should make a slight metalic 'clunk' when
the key is turned. If not, then an ignition system problem becomes
slightly more likely. Even then, I'd first beep out the solenoid's
input coil and check the wiring around it.

Moderate tapping on the solenoid will often get it to work. If that
doesn't help try this: The classic way of hotwiring (completely
bypassing) a bad solenoid is to turn the ignition on and short the two
solenoid output terminals with a screwdriver. Crude but effective - the
starter WILL get +12v.

 

What do you mean "new ignition switch (key cylinder)"? Did you replace the
actual switch or just the key cylinder? If just the key cylinder, I would
say you probably replaced the wrong part. Check the switch.

 

E Meyer,

I replaced the switch, not the cylinder. I made the notation to avoid
confusion, as there are many parts that start with the word "ignition".

Thanks.

 

That link doesn't show the solenoid... on this picture:
http://autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d801a9097.gif
it's the smaller cylinder on the right side of the assembly (this is for an
88-93 Integra, but shouldn't be too different).

The solenoid is basically a combination of a high-current relay (to feed the
starter motor itself) and a mechanical throw-out that pushes the starter gear
into position to mesh with the flywheel.

That would have nothing to do with the engine not turning over - that just
controls the spark.

 

This has also happened to my freind. The problem is a simple little thing
called a starter clutch/sylonide. It engages the starter gear with the
flywheel which then turns the motor over.
Poofy

 

No if the solenoid is bad the starter will still run, still creating some
type or sound, it just wont engage with the flywheel. The solenoid has
nothing to do with any electrical current what so ever at any given time
during engine operation. It is like a little slide for the starter gear to
rest on and move into position with the flywheel to start the vechile.

Just thought you should know,
Poofy

 

Solenoid on your pic is #9. Since it is combined with the starter
itself, you have to replace the whole thing. Get a refurbished or used
one - would be way cheaper.

 

Please, don't post if you don't know what you are talking about, you
just mislead other people.

 

That depends on exactly what is wrong with the solenoid.

I see. And you come by this gem of information, how? Obviously not from
rebuilding any starters. Tell us then, why does the big thick cable from my
battery connect to the back of the solenoid and not the starter motor itself?
Does the 200-350A that the starter is capable of drawing (according to the spec
in the manual) actually go through the little thin wiring to my key switch?
Explain the diagrams and schematic here then:
http://www.moltenimage.com/freebies/g3accord/engine_electrical/24-25.JPG

The solenoid on a *typical* electric starter is a two-function device: a
high-current relay *and* a mechanical throwout for the starter gears. At least,
it has been in assorted different Dodge, Mazda and Honda vehicles I've owned and
repaired over the years.

In fact, I've only ever seen one variation on the concept, and that was in old
Fords, where the solenoid was a standalone unit generally mounted to one side of
the engine bay that acted ONLY as a high-current relay for the starter lead, and
the gear throwout was strictly mechanical.

 

I just thought it might be starter relay or whatever it is called. I
mean not solenoid, but another relay between main switch and solenoid.
Expecially if there is no sound when you turn the key

 

My rant was more aimed at "poofy", who as you already noted, really doesn't know
what he's talking about

The solenoid IS the relay between the key switch and the starter - on my Accord,
there is nothing else between the key and the "S" terminal on the solenoid
(there's an interlock switch on automatics that prevents starting when not in
Park or Neutral, and some newer MT cars have an interlock on the clutch).

I don't believe the starter signal goes through the main relay (a common culprit
in most Hondas) either. If there's not even a "click" from the engine bay when
the key is turned, it's quite likely the solenoid that's that problem.

Take a look at the complete start/ignition wiring diagram for the G3 Accord:
http://moltenimage.com/freebies/g3accord/engine_electrical/24-3.JPG

Note the battery cable connects directly to the 'B' terminal on the solenoid;
the connection between the 'M' terminal and the starter motor itself is internal
(or semi-internal; it's a part of the assembly, in any case). When you turn the
key, the solenoid coil in energized directly; when the solenoid armature pulls
in, it makes the contact to power the starter motor, as well as pushing out the
starter gear (which isn't shown on the wiring diagram).

It's a time-tested and very effective design. Most cars' starter systems will
not differ significantly.

 

Yeah, just looked at my civic wiring diagram - you are right. I just
thought for some reason that solenoid current still should be too high
for ignition switch, so there should be one more relay in between, and
did not bother to check. My bad :frown:

 

No problem. I don't know exactly what the current draw of the solenoid itself
it - it would be a fair bit, because it does have to move a relatively hefty
mechanism, and the starter lead in the steering-column wiring is rather thick (I
think 16 or 14 guage), but the bulk of the actual cranking current is switched
by the solenoid itself.

 

I wish you would let the solenoid on my mitsuba starter know that.
It's gradually crapping out, and trust me, it does have something to
do with electricity to the starter. I can send you a schematic of the
solenoid
circuit if needed. The OP's problem sounds like a flaky solenoid, but I

would double check to make sure it's not the ignition switch before I
went to buy a new starter or solenoid. Sometimes flaky solenoids can
make a clunk, or make the starter act real slow like a nearly dead
battery.
It's also possible to have a bad one make no sound at all. But not sure
about hondas in particular. It's common for say a GM starter to not
make a
sound with a hot/bad solenoid. I've seen it many times. Once those cool
off, they usually start.
The problem on mine is the "slow motor/acts like a low battery
syndrome.
And it doesn't do it all the time. Sometimes it's perfectly normal.
Hondas generally use ND or Mitsuba starters. If you have a ND, you
are in luck. Contact kits for those are readily available. But the
mitsuba
starter, I've yet to find a stand alone solenoid or kit for sale so
far. Kinda sucks..
I have a perfectly good starter, but can't change the lousy micky mouse
solenoid. I may have to buy a whole new starter. I hear tell the ND's,
and mitubas will interchange..I'm almost tempted to change from the
mitsuba to the ND, so I can change the solenoid contacts in the
future.. But
then again, I may not have the car long enough to wear out another
starter,
unless they give me a piece of junk.
I had heard you could buy new contact kits from the dealer, but I asked
them the last time I was there, and they didn't have any.
BTW, solenoid problems are fairly common on honda starters. The
starters themselves are usually still good. I don't know why the auto
parts stores, or even the dealer can't stock just the solenoid. It's
all
about $$$. They want to sell you a new or rebuilt starter. And some of
the rebuilts are probably not as good as the old stock starter if it's
a OEM
part.
MK

 

OP already said he's got a new key switch and battery...

There are really three possible main points of failure specific to the solenoid:

1. Bad relay contacts: solenoid will "clunk" as the armature throws out, but
starter will not turn or will turn slowly;

2. Bad solenoid coil: weak or no "clunk" at all, as the coil fails to pull the
armature sufficiently to engage the relay contacts and/or the drive gear;

3. Bad throwout mechanism: starter will spin, but drive gear isn't being pushed
out, and will not engage.

Of course, loose connections are always a possibility as well, including the
short one between the solenoid and the starter motor itself.

Solenoid contacts are the likely culprits. Could also be a bad bearing in the
starter motor itself - when hot, parts stick as metal expands, you'd probably
hear a typical bad-bearing grinding/whining sound when it does crank over - or
bad brushes on the starter motor.

Could always get a used one from an auto wrecker...

 

I'm fairly sure it's just the contacts. I might even see if I can clean
them
up and get a few more miles out of it before it totally goes south.
I'm fairly sure the motor is fine. The temp has no bearing on whether
it does it or not. It can do it cold or hot. When it does work right,
it
sounds normal. And that can be either hot or cold.

Yea, I but hate putting used electrical parts on. I guess it's an
option to avoid buying a whole new starter, but it's not one I'm
crazy about. I'm sure it would probably be half wore out unless
maybe I got one that was fairly new. But.. I sure to hate to replace
a perfectly good starter.. I'll probably have to deal with it pretty
soon.
I can still get it started every time, but it's gonna get worse, and
one day my luck is going to run out. Of course, Ruprects law
dictates that this must happen at the worst possible time.
IE: half way across town in a driving rain storm with no auto parts
open, being Ruprect always prefers to strike at night.. :/
MK