Is Honda switching to timing chains?

My neighbor just bought a new CR-V and he says that not only that model
uses timing chain instead of belt, but that Honda is doing that with
other new models as well. I've never heard this before. Is this true?

 

My 03 accord has a chain. I wouldn't ever buy another car with a belt!!!!!!

 

"Brian Smith" wrote

I'd think the issue is with the cost to replace the belt, whereas the chain
is.... maintenance-free. ?

 

Why not? If one keeps up with regular maintenance, there's no issue
with a vehicle with a timing belt.

 

If one can not afford to maintain a vehicle (or anything one owns),
then one should not attempt to own anything. With ownership comes
responsibilities. It's only a minor expense every few years, so that
argument doesn't really hold.

 

Agreed. Honda used belts for a solid engineering reason.

Now the marketing mavens have taken over and are responding to the
ignorant masses who think that a chain is inherently better, simply
because it isn't a scheduled maintenance item.

Instead, it becomes an unexpected, unscheduled repair.

My brother's 91 Infiniti Q needed its timing chains replaced,
unexpectedly of course, after about 8 years. $2700.

 

It is true the chain is not a scheduled maintenance item like the belt
is.

That is far, far from saying that the chain is free from needing service
attention.

 

indeed - if there is a chain problem, it's costly. in fact, for many
older cars with non-diy owners, the vehicle with a chain problem will
become uneconomic to repair. thus it gets the vehicle off the road and
the owner into the showroom buying a new one. [if they still have any
brand loyalty left after being let down - the bit the mba bean counters
somehow don't seem to be smart enough to factor into their cash flow
projections]

with a scheduled maintenance item like a belt, and its relatively low
cost [some independents here in the bay area advertise timing belt
changes from only $250], you can keep that puppy on the road almost
indefinitely.

from the engineering perspective, belts with their inherently lower
mass, effective absence of stretch and smoother tooth engagement make
for better emissions over the life of the engine, much better drive
train operation and lower wear rates - technically, a much superior
solution.

 

they're about $74 online for a civic vs $33 for a belt - hardly a
material issue. what /is/ material though is that the belted engines
are designed to be maintained. the chained engines are supposed to be
pretty much "sealed for life". a fundamental philosophical difference
that is part of the huge honda shift towards following the rest of the
automotive world into "life limitation".

 

I agree (as should any thinking person) that chains require
maintenance. They (the chains) are moving pieces of machinery and
everything that moves requires TLC through it's lifespan. For the peope
that don't think that chains can stretch, they are sadly misinformed.
Those chains are far more expensive than Honda's timing belts.

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote

OK, thanks. I was not aware that it would need maintenance. I'm soon taking
my Accord in for its 60K major service and I'll ask about it, such as what
they do to maintain it. The work will be done at an independent garage.

 

My guess would be that many owners forget to have their timing belt
replaced at the given interval and it results in belt failure that can
be catastrophic for interference engines. Honda probably got tired of
the bad publicity from these cases and that's why they decided to switch
to chains. I assume they still make the interference engines with the
timing chains, right?

 

8 years - what failed/how did it fail?

Hard to imagine anyone blaming MBA bean counters/auto engineers after 8
years of trouble free operation.

 

8 years - what failed/how did it fail?
Stretched.


Hard to imagine anyone blaming MBA bean counters/auto engineers after 8
years of trouble free operation.[/QUOTE]

Oh no, not blaming anyone on that. But if you buy a Honda now because
"look, no more of those damned timing belts that need replaced!", don't
expect that you've eliminated a maintenance or repair item. The timing
belt will need addressed at some point.

 

Honda (and Toyota) started migrating to chains around 2003. The engines are
still interference.

Most owners do in fact hate the belt-change interval on account of its
cost, and the fact that they find it hard to justify such an expense when
there appears to be nothing wrong with the car. They tend to think this is
a ripoff by either Honda or the dealer.

And many did ignore the belt-change interval and had the belt slip/break on
them (my boss was one of those).

 

Individuals that aren't capable of paying attention to their affairs
should not pass the blame for their stupidity to the manufacturer. Nor
should the manufacturer change a product that hasn't had any *real*
issues for the majority of consumers.

 

How many miles did he get?

 

He had about double the recommended mileage interval, but a few years under
the time limit. And he had no valve damage.

It's important to know that his CR-V was driven very long distances between
shut-downs, so the belt underwent relatively little startup/shutdown
stress. Startup/shutdown is extremely tough on timing belts, much tougher
than steady running.

The vehicle is still on the road, sold to one of our plant employees. It
now has about 280,000 miles on it.

 

Oh no, not blaming anyone on that. But if you buy a Honda now because
"look, no more of those damned timing belts that need replaced!", don't
expect that you've eliminated a maintenance or repair item. The timing
belt will need addressed at some point.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't a Honda but I did have a 1987 Ford van with a 302 in it. At 60,000
miles I put on a new water pump. While I was in there I removed the timing
chain cover and it had stretched enough that it was rubbing on the side of
the cover. I replaced it with a double roller one from a performance parts
place. They definitely do stretch.

 

And what will they think when the chain stretches or otherwise needs
UNexpected attention?

That's a REPAIR--equally deadly on the market chart, right up there with
"maintenance expense".