Is Honda switching to timing chains?

I'm asking because my Accord has nearly 190k and I'm debating skipping
pricey change out at 210k & letting it ride, hoping to get about 230k
when brakes, tires, battery, more fluid changes, etc will all be due
when it may be a good time to call it quits.

 

Just an extra 20K miles? Provided you're currently on an OEM belt, and it
doesn't take you 2-years over the time-limit to get to that 20K, you'll be
be fine. Honda builds-in quite a safety margin into its specified timing-
belt life.

230K for a well-maintained Honda is nothing. With tall-enough gearing (such
as that found in the Accord), and proper care, they go over 400K, easy.

 

The chains used these days are nothing like the beefed-up bicycle-chains of
yore.

They're awfully well-made these days. If oil-changes are done according to
the Maintenance Minder, that chain will outlast the car. Even the
tensioners look like they'll last forever.

The oldest chains are now about 8-years-old. My dealer tells me they've
never had a single one come in with a chain problem, no matter the mileage.
I'd be very surprised if /any/ of the new chains /ever/ break or slip.

 

Thank you for bringing some sense of reality back to this thread.

 

I can testify to that. My '94 Accord has now 292K in it and runs just
great. I easily expect 500 K from it. Of course I stick to the
recommended maintenance schedule religiously, which is every 7,500
miles, with (Castrol) oil change in between (every 3,750 miles). I had
my 3rd timing belt replacement at 270 K and checking the old belt I
could definitely see the wear on it. Heck, after switching to Chevron
gas consistently about 2 years ago, I don't even hear the cylinder pings
uphill in hot weather anymore. It must have cleaned out some of the
carbon build-up. The only thing I might have the mechanic check next
time is why my idle seem to be somewhat uneven at times. I wonder if
cleaning the choke body could fix that. I don't think it was ever
cleaned. Any ideas?

 

Don't they make the engine noisier though?

 

What happened then? Did the chain jump a tooth or something? $2700 is
nothing to sneeze your nose at.

Sorry to be like a dog with a bone on this, but I'm curious about it for
2 reasons: 1. I have an '03 Accord I4, and 2. I'm comparing it in my
mind to my old '69 Porsche 911T, which had hydraulic tensioners
(one/cylinder bank) and it was the factory tensioners which failed
(never did any damage, however). The engine got noisy (chain slapping
around) when a tensioner failed, so after a couple of times (more or
less annually, IIRC) I installed solid aftermarket tensioners. They
needed to be adjusted annually for the additional slack in the chains,
but it was routine maintenance (basically free - did it myself) and they
never failed. Ultimately I had a *very* meticulous friend who
recommended rebuilding the Porsche tensioners (that he ran in his '73
911S). The rebuilt tensioners were rock solid and required no maint.
That was the situation until I sold the car a few years later.

FWIW, Honda calls the chain cam drive setup "maintenance-free throughout
the life of the engine".

From: http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2003112035861

"Cylinder Head and Valvetrain
The i-VTEC engine is crowned by a compact, lightweight cylinder head
made of pressure-cast aluminum alloy. Its 4-valve-per-cylinder design
has double overhead camshafts activated by a silent chain drive to
ensure extremely precise control of the cam phasing. The cam drive is
maintenance-free throughout the life of the engine. The combustion
chamber is designed with a relatively large "squish" area that promotes
faster flame propagation on the ignition stroke. This results in more
complete burning of the air-fuel mix and subsequently, lower levels of
CO and HC emissions. "

 

That's comforting, still glad I have the chain on my accord. I would
expect it to be more durable than the old American style chains that
always broke. FWIW,the chain (double iirc) on my old 93 Altima flapped
about for over 200k, Now has 360k and no problems. I even removed the
upper chain guide to try to quiet it down. I figure I have easily saved
$3000 by not having to change a belt and water pump every 80k.

 

Next year will be seven years since the 105k mile change out. Guess
I'll make that decision next summer when it'll be about 210k miles / 7
years , depending on how well it's running.

Average mileage cost (nearly 25 cents / mile including depreciation, gas
and maintenance, but excluding taxes & insurance) has increased
marginally over the past few years primarily due to a second replacement
of tires, brakes and battery plus a relatively costly pollution device
repair and new ball joints, but yearly maintenance is still lower than
the cost of taxes & insurance on a late model.

Of course at this stage, cost is just gas & maintenance (plus a small
insurance and registration cost). Considering it still runs well
(better & more quiet than any of the new cars I test drove a few years
ago), my primary concern is an unexpected break down on extended mileage
trips. Added advantage for this car is the extra headroom that was cut
in Accord's 2003 year which is also lacking in most other compact & mid
size cars.

 

What happened then? Did the chain jump a tooth or something? $2700 is
nothing to sneeze your nose at.[/QUOTE]

Not sure. That was years ago.

 

Sit back in silence and consider that phrase for a few moments.

 

You've never had a water pump failure?

Understand that the water pump replacement in a Honda was done not
because it failed, necessarily, but because you were already in there
and the incremental cost was about $25 to go ahead and replace it.

If the water pump on your Altima failed, you'd still have a helluva bill.

 

LOL! As soon as the chain fails, the engine is no longer alive.

 

No. The old bicycle-chains did, but not these. Go listen to any '03 CR-V's
engine.

 

Thanx. I wonder how they changed those chains to make them so quiet. Can
you point to a picture of such chains?

 

<http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=silent+chain&aq=f&aqi=g8g-m2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=68ea58825d28d998>

 

Thanks again. They sure look different than the ones I remember from a
long time ago.

 

LOL. Cameo, you must not have known that timing belt vs chain is one
of the biggest debates in car forums.

 

Everyone who races in F500 (SCCA) has gone from chain drive to belt
drive. Most of the high end motorcycles have gone to belt drive.

Maintenance free? How about free play? Chain adjustments can be a
holy bitch. And if you think a belt is expensive, try a $300 chain.
On top of the expense of labor.

 

there are many sound technical reasons to use belts. but chains have
advanced a lot in recent years, and "pre-stretched" chain, where the
initial high stretch rate is taken care of in the factory, not the
engine, means they can be used for a comparatively long period without
intervention. add that to the fact that consumers don't like getting
the hose from unscrupulous dealers over-charging for belt changes, and
the opportunity for the manufacturer to get the car into the "not worth
spending the maintenance money" zone before it needs a new chain, and
you have a financial decision to go with an inferior technical solution.