Is the compensation number accurate or misleading?

GM never said where the money comes from. Maybe some of it is coming
from a separate pension fund that they fund and they are including it in
the calculation.

 

Accepted by anyone who actually lived through that period, or read
about it.
The paper below details it and is well done on the more obscure
historical details. Some of the parallels with current events are
striking.
I recommend it to anybody interested in what is happening now if only
for those parallels, and further as an example of despite how history
repeats itself, the "Big 3" haven't learned much.
Deja vu all over again.
But my main point has nothing to do with the arcane arts of dollar
valuations determining plant locations or what the Germans are doing.
It is that the politicians will decide what "economics" are applied.
Just like they have decided to bail out GM and Chrysler.
Despite what all the "experts" here and elsewhere have said.
I suspect there will be more "loans" forthcoming, and much gnashing of
teeth to getting the automakers and the UAW to respond as they should.
I won't predict the final outcome.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/japan/scohenwp.htm

--Vic

 

I don't think it really matters. GM is supposed to have it wages in line
with other automakers (Honda, Toyota, etc) who make cars in the US by 2010.
Someone will figure out whether they do or don't accomplish that.

If they are already in compliance, then the UAW doesn't need to "educate"
the public, since they will not be getting a pay cut (if they are correct).

 

I did live through it, and paid list price or slightly higher for 2 Japanese
cars (1979 and 1986).

I agree that the parallels are interesting (deep recession of early 1980's),
but there is only a passing reference to the Japanese building factories in
the US, i.e., that it eventually made import quotas (even if voluntary) no
longer an issue. But that does not mean that is reason why they built the
plants here, that is a merely an ancillary benefit. The main reason is the
foreign currency issues. As the author noted, the Japanese companies made
more money (windfall profits) with the voluntary quotas then they made
without them.

In any event, even if that is debatable for the 1980's, it is certainly not
the reason why they are building plants here now. You cannot seriously
believe that BMW and Mercedes are worried about import quotas and that it
played an important factor in their decision to build plants in the US.

 

And doubling of gas prices.

Are you linking the windfall profits to currency valuations?
The paper suggests simple price gouging.
If you can't provide cites for your argument, desist.
Otherwise, I'm willing to read them.
I am willing to be wrong and learn something.

Of course not, and I never remotely suggested that.
Why the Japs built here in the first place was a side issue,
and the past is the past.
As I said above, what I believe is that politicians - and the
automakers themselves - will decide the fate of the "Big 3."
Just as they've done in the past.
It will be an "American" decision and have nothing to do with Japs or
Germans. It will be about American jobs.
Economists' pontificating about the value of the dollar versus the
yen, yuan and mark won't count.
BTW, it appears many if not most American politicians drive "Big 3"
cars. That counts.

--Vic

 

Not at all. I was paraphrasing what the author said in the article you
posted, i.e.. that with the volutuntary quotas the Japanese made windfall
profits because they were able to raise their prices as the demand for their
cars soared. You call that price gouging, I call it supply and demand
(dealers made a bundle also). They also invested that money in bigger and
more luxury models, which dealt a sever blow to US automakers later on.

 

You take care of yourself - that's what could be "fairer". Do your job
diligently, leave every day having done just a little more than what was
asked of you, and stop looking at your employer as your enemy, and you
won't need all of those negotiators either.

 

Sure it would. Those employees that get off their butt and offer the
company more are worth more in wages. Your union mentality is hurting you
- killing you. Fair is to be paid what you're worth based on what you
offer - not based on the fact that you breath. You don't like the threat
of getting fired? The make yourself worthwhile to the company. Millions
of people do that everyday. You are epitomizing the very reason people
have come to despise unions - you are seeking protection from poor work and
poor workmanship. Hell - you do not deserve those protections.

 

You are brainwashed.

Pathetic.

 

Sure. I trust the management to be fair to them, just like I trust
Bernie Madoff to be honest and not cheat anyone. Or those Wall St.
bankers. Yeah, I trust them to be fair and honest.
Goodness, how old are you? 5?

 

A free market is not based on trust, it is based on the right to go
somewhere else if you don't think you are being paid enough, or for the
company to hire someone else if they think someone else can do a better job
or do it cheaper. This is the same thing you do when buy goods and services
for your personal use. You want the best product or service for you money.
If you buy gas for your car, you don't care if the gas came from US crude
oil or foreign crude oil, so long as you get the best price for a given
quality.

I have no idea what "fair" is when it comes to wages. Wages are based on
supply and demand. If fairness is comparing UAW wages to others who do
similar labor, then UAW workers would be making a lot less.

Regarding Bernie Madoff, anyone who bothered to read the financial
statements could see that they were audited by a very small CPA firm, and
not one of the big name CPA firms. That should have been a major red flag
right away. They have since found out that the CPA firm that did the audits
has been insisting for years to regulatory groups that it does not even do
audits.

 

I don't totally agree with you there. I lived in the Detroit area for 11
years from 1969 to 1980. The first 5 years there, I worked at Ford's Wayne
Assembly Plant, which of course was a union job. The wages were very good
for that time, and I had no trouble getting what I wanted in the way of
most toys and needs. I left there and went to work for a large retail
nursery chain that was growing and expanding all up and down the east coast.
Even after 2 promotions to top assistant store manager, I still wasn't
making as much as I did at a union job. The store I managed was a 2A store,
meaning it grossed over $2.5M per year (pretty good chunk of change for
1976!). The demand for product was there, and so was the supply, but the
wages weren't. Is that to say the wages were unfair? Not really- it was
still a pretty good living. "Fair" to me would be a wage that would allow a
family to have the basic necessities, and a few perks, without going so
deeply into debt that they'd never get out. Otherwise, you might as well
"sell your soul to the company store" as the old song went. A lot of the
problem today (IMHAWO) is that everyone wants what they want, and they want
it NOW! If that means maxing out 4 or 5 credit cards, so be it. If that
means getting a mortgage on a home Bill Gates couldn't afford, don't come
crying to me when the bottom falls out. As luck (and research) would have
it, I managed to put pretty decent money into my 401k at the last company I
worked and build myself an OK nest egg. I'm not rich by any means, not even
in the well-to-do category, but at age 62, I've managed to pay off my
mortgage (1900 sq. ft. home) and my vehicle (2002 Escape) and have no credit
card debt. I'm certainly no financial wizard, just a retired IS guy. But I
think if I can do it, most people can. Yes, I went through some lean years
(repossessed vehicle and homeless for a few months), but that's all behind
me now. It can be done, and you don't have to have a $100K a year job to do
it (unless, of course, you're spending $125K a year).

Sorry for the rant- that's just the way I see it.

SC Tom

 

I sort of agree, but some skill and responsibility should go with that. The
Federal minimum wage is a joke, but dishwasher should not make as much as a
skilled machinist or doctor.

 

Rick F. Wishywashy should get a bit less than a diswasher for
collapsing all trust of GM.
Actually he should pay back old wages and bonuses for the last few
years he robbed

 

I that what you did when you left McDonalds? LOL

Rick F. Wishywashy should get a bit less than a diswasher for
collapsing all trust of GM.
Actually he should pay back old wages and bonuses for the last few
years he robbed

 

When I got this job, I was looking for one.... Like the stock market or a
retirement plan, one should invest wisely.... Your career is one of the most
important investments in your life.... As such, you should always be
"situationally aware".

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul".

If my 'job' didn't pay me enough money, I would better myself and EARN more
money (earn??? what a freaking concept). No need to improve - no need to
apply myself... the union can always bully the employer into a higher
remuneration.... Oh... wait... isn't that what drives inflation? Getting
paid more than a task is worth?

Great people do great things.... sheep, no matter how well cared for, are
going one place - right beside the mint jelly.

 

They do

 

I sir am probably a good bit older than you and have experienced fair
treatment for my entire working life. Sure - there are some unethical
people out there and once in a while they cross your path in life, but that
is an entirely different matter. It is a shame that you are so influenced
by someone as to belive that it is you versus your employer. You will
never have a good relationship with an employer with that philosophy. It's
a self-fulfilling prophesy. You are exactly what the unions want in their
rank and file.

 

I don't think a dishwasher would ever make as much as a doctor or someone in
skilled trades unless the dishwasher applied himself, got a better or more
education in a particular field, and changed jobs. Of course, that's where
the skill part comes in, and with that new job would come more
responsibility for his own actions (which seems to be missing in American
life now). After leaving the assembly (union) job, each of my new ones
required more education and skill, and definitely more responsibility. The
IS position I retired from required the most of all, but I still didn't earn
as much as an assembly line worker at a U.S. automaker's unionized plant.
But that was my decision to leave that job, so I can't blame them for what I
don't make. Hey, that's the American way- get as much as you can, and if you
don't want to learn a skill, join a union.

And yes, the minimum wage is pathetic. A 40 hour week would keep a SINGLE
person below the poverty level, much less a family.

SC Tom

 

Is that specific to GM? I worked for a company some years ago, which
invested our
pension money into one of three (employee selected) stock accounts.

We lost a ton of money, as the administrating broker wore the stocks out
trading them.
(As usual, the brokerage gets paid for trades, not for performance).

Our company didnt reimburse a cent.

Did I miss something (besides my money)?