Is the mechanic responsible?

So heres the story: I was driving my 91 civic back from work when my
check oil light came on. I stopped at a gas station, got new oil, and
went on my way. When I was about 20 minutes away from my house (and 30
away from a gas station), my check oil light started to flicker on and
off. Then my car started to shake and bang it was dead.
I got it towed to a mechanic, who said that the last guy to change
my oil had replaced my drain plug incorrectly. I had my oil changed
only a month ago. Now my motor and radiator are shot. My car only has
100K on it.
The mechanic says that it is the responsibility of the guys that
changed the oil, and that they owe me a new motor. They say no.

A: Is it possible to prove responsibility?
B: What should my course of action be?

 

DND,

In my opinion, you don't have enough evidence to make a
case. First, the shop that did the oil change could say
something could have happened in the few weeks between the
oil change and the loss of oil pressure, like your car hit a
high spot. And maybe something did happen. Can you really
say otherwise? Second, that oil pressure light is there for
a reason. Car owners are supposed to know to pull over and
stop the engine immediately when it comes on.

Granted maybe the shop that did the oil change did mess up.
But it doesn't sound to me like there's any way to prove it.
Plus, they could also assert that you monkeyed with the
drain plug so this would happen and you'd get a new engine
out of it.

Lastly, the cost of legal fees to really argue this likely
would exceed the cost of an engine, with little guarantee of
a settlment or victory.

I would chalk this up to a lesson in how to respond to the
low oil pressure light. Sorry about your misfortune.

 

Speak with a lawyer and see what evidence your case has...If they say no
case then you have no case... try posting in alk.uk.law. <- if you are from
the UK of course...

Dom

 

I agree with you. Lots of money would be wasted on lawyers
and court costs. You may in up losing the case but would still
have to pay your lawyer and court costs. However, I agree that
the gas station mechanic caused the problem. The mechanic would
claim that he replaced the drain plug correctly and that you
or someone else must have installed it incorrectly after you
left the gas station.
Jason

 

Did you have a bad oil leak because of the incorrectly installed drain plug?
That mechanic had to been quite incompetent or careless. I would take the
car to the shop again. If they say no, take them to Judge Judy.

 

You lost 4 quarts (US) in one month? Did you notice an oil slick under the
car? Or did the plug back out and you lost all the oil at once?

 

maybe. maybe not. did you check the car when you got it back from the
oil change? does the drain plug show evidence of being struck with a
rock or anything? and how come you didn't notice the leakage prior to
failure? the car would have stunk of oil splash burning on the exhaust.

if you really think you have a case and it wasn't rock damage or your
negligence, small claims court. here in california, i believe that's
limited to $5000, but that amount should cover entire vehicle
replacement cost for a 91 civic. if you can back up your case, chances
are, the oil change monkeys will offer to settle as soon as they get
their summons. make sure you have 3 separate repair quotes to back up
your claim amount and that you have records of your attempts to have
them remedy the situation.

 

See, that wouldn't happen if that last guy was /you/. In the future,
change your own oil!

Think about the oil change guys and what they do for a living, and how
little intellect and education that requires. They drain and refill
what is essentially a large, metallic container---a glorified keg---and
replace two simple parts that screw off and screw on. That's their
brilliant career. (And these are grown up men, remember!) You are
trusting these people to do it right.

If you changed your own oil, you'd probably understand a little bit
more about it. So if that oil light went on, you'd instinctively be
inclined to pull over and take a look to see whether something is wrong
with the drain plug (like, is it there!), or whether there are leaks
around the oil filter or other places. You'd know where these things
are since you messed with them yourself.

Oil lights have to be taken very seriously; you don't just add oil and
cross your fingers. If the previous oil disappeared somewhere, whatever
new oil you add will go the same way, unless you can be certain that
it's a slow leak.

An engine will die very quickly without oil. It's amazing yours lasted
that long.

If your drain plug is gone, the stranded can be rescued by bringing a
new drain plug to it, along with a gallon of new oil. Plug it, fill it,
and the ordeal is over.

(Was this Jiffy Lube by any chance? Do a web search for Jiffy Lube
and all the cars they destroyed, while claiming no responsibility).

To be fair, this shop doesn't owe you a /new/ motor, just the value of
a motor in the same condition: a 91 Civic engine with 100K on it, plus
the labor of an engine swap. You can put a dollar figure on that, with
interest.

You begin by writing a three-part letter to the management of that oil
change place. The first part says what went wrong, giving all the
details. The second part says what you want, and the third part says
what action you will take if you don't get what you want by such and
such date. That action would be taking them to court (seeking an even
greater settlement than what your letter asks for: incentive to settle
out of court!) You could add the threat of going after further damages
on that. Costs you incurred due to not having a car. Lost income. I.e.
pay me the value of the engine now, or I will go after more.

IANAL, but I think that all you need court wise is the receipt for the
oil change and the testimony of your mechanic ("expert witness") that
it was an incorrectly installed plug. Record the odometer readings too,
which provide evidence that that must indeed have been the last oil
change due to the small number of miles driven since. I.e. if you drove
500 miles since that oil change, you would have had no reason to mess
with your engine lubrication. An oil change requires the removal of a
drain plug and the installation of a new one, so it cannot be claimed
that it's a part they did not touch, or are not responsible for.

 

Nice. This shows how much education you have. The
probability is high that the guy changing the oil is in
training for technician certification.

As for their "brilliant career" choice, most technicians
I've met are as smart or smarter than doctors or lawyers.

I write this as a multi-degreed, multi-licensed, extensively
experienced engineer who still can't perform a clutch job.

This is not a preponderance of evidence that shows the shop
did the oil change wrong.

From all we at the group know, this guy /is/ trying to pull
a fast one and lining up support from Usenet to do so.
Though I doubt it, because he admits freely he doesn't know
what the oil pressure warning light means. Furthermore,
since he /should/ know this, then if I were on the jury, I
couldn't give him a victory.

 

A fast one I am not trying to pull, because In my expirience car
trouble is anything but fast. I have work that I'm missing, and school
to pay for. This is definitly something I did not want to happen. I
don't want a new motor, I just want my car to be like it was, which was
pretty good.
Prior to yesterday, I did not notice anything was wrong with the
car. It did not smoke or smell like burning oil. I havent been in an
accident or bottomed out before or since the oil change.
The drain plug was actually missing when it got towed to the shop.
The mechanic believes it fell out because it was threaded incorrectly.
I plan on having a second mechanic look at it as well.

 

A screw that is "threaded incorrectly" is one that has been "cross
threaded". This means the initial thread engagement was not aligned
properly, but engaged enough to start and screw forward at an
incorrect angle and literally forge new threads as it turns. This is
easily detected by revealing two different sets of threads in your oil
pan hole. You should be able to see this. Unless the threads were
completly "stripped" ...the thread peaks literally sheared off from
overtightening (another possibility)... a cross threaded screw is
usually a jammed fit and not likely to come unscrewed. A correctly
screwed thread that was not properly tightened is more likely to come
undone.

If you do detect "crossthreading" or "stripping" of the threads, you
have a much better case in small claims court, as it shows positive
proof of incompetence on the mechanics part. Even if the damage was
done before the last oil change, it was the mechanics responsibility
to make you aware of it. It also shows he was a moron, because it
could have meant a bigger repair job before he ever started the oil
change. So, it's not a likely possibility. If the hole is not cross
threaded, your back to square one and I suspect it is not or the
mechanic that discovered the missing oil plug and replaced it would
have noticed unless they're all idiots in that part of the country and
I doubt they are.... whew!

In the end, I say your best bet is to go to small claims court and
plead your case. The suggestion you may have hit a rock or removed it
again and improperly re-installed it is absurd on the face of it. The
mechanic that replaced your oil was undoubtedly the last to touch it
and having the tow driver's and his mechanic's affidavit is probably
as good as you're going to get. Throw your dice and take your
chances. OTOH, be aware that even if the judge rules in your favor,
that doesn't get you money in your hand. I can't remember all the
small claims court cases I've heard about where the losing defendent
refused to cough up. That's a whole other issue ...and legal problem.
On top of that, all this takes time.

If I were you, I'd bite the bullet, borrow some money from friends,
family, whomever, and get your car fixed now. Learn lifes lessons
and try for satisfaction later.

Good luck
nb

 

Common knowledge among eng techs for years!

Don't beat yourself up over it, Elle.

Naw, just kidding. It's just different skillsets and experience.
Linear-spatial, right brain-left brain, and all that kinda crap.

nb

 

What's absurd about a rock hitting the drain plug and
loosening it or damaging the threads?

This doesn't strike me as impossible.

 

Unless you're able to do brain surgery in addition to being
able to change a timing belt, I wouldn't let it go to your
head.

Nope.

 

Any collision strong enough to rip a drain plug out of its hole, or
even loosen a properly torqued plug, is enough to leave visible
peripheral damage. Too believe a vehicle can drive along and hit a
single "rock" just right, so as to only hit a single apex of a hex
head oil plug, turning it in the "lefty loosey" direction, while
touching no other part of the undercarriage is about as likely as your
mother's left nipple exploding in President Bush's eyeball on the
Fourth of July (this year). Please tell me you don't believe either
one of these possiblities exist.

nb

 

Firstly, do you know where the drain plug is and which way it faces?

 

Hey that happened to my Mom...in the future...this coming summer!

 

The problem is you're speculating, not asserting provable
facts.

You can't prove that something didn't hit the drain plug and
damage it or cause it to free; or that someone didn't get
under there and free it; or that it's reasonable for a
person to be clueless about the oil pressure warning light.

Any one of those defeats the OP's argument IMO.

 

Yup. Been changing oil in cars for over 20 years.

Do you reject that something could hit the drain plug and
damage it?

I'm not saying it did. I'm arguing it's impossible to prove
that it didn't.

 

You know, I would think that even collisions in which the oil pain is
severed and flung 300 yards from the crash site, it will be found with
the drain plug in place.

That is, if it was installed properly: right thread size, with
30-something lb-ft of torque.

Downward inpact on a properly tightened bolt only relieves pressure in
the threads, because they stress acts in the direction which pulls the
bolt into the case. The threads in the case push against the
outward-facing surfaces of the bolt's threads. Moreover, the head of
the bolt is flush with the mounting surface, and so the impact is
transmitted to that surface. There is pressure between the bolt head
and the mounting surface, but in the bolt's shaft there is tension!
I.e. you are not going to strip the threads by hammering straight down
on a a tightened bolt. On the other hand, lateral impact causes shear
which has a tendency to rip the head off. You are right: to loosen the
bolt, a torque impact would be needed, like that of an impact wrench.
Hitting a single rock just right, so that a single torque impact
loosens the bolt, is just about impossible.

And anyway, that's not considering that the bolt is located such that
it does not extend downward beneath the nether profile of the oil pan.
Even if the oil pan bottoms out and scrapes over some pavement or rock,
it's not likely that the bolt will be touched at all. Moreover, because
the bolt is mounted on a rear-oriented surface of the oil pan, it's
shielded from flying objects. You'd have to drive in reverse, at high
speed, on a rocky road, behind some heavy truck that flings rocks into
the air.

But then, I'm not a multi-degreed, certified engineer, so WTF do I
know.