Is the mechanic responsible?

You said it. Not me. Considering my gracious (and honest)
remarks earlier, you're way out of line, son.

I disagree with your "analysis," because vibrations, for
one, do loosen bolts. I'd try to break it down with you, but
I can see you don't have the command of the vocabulary here
to discuss this intelligently.

You're also not addressing my other points re being able to
/prove/ the guy didn't hit something or someone didn't
monkey with the bolt after the oil change or knowing the
meaning of the oil pressure light.

That's all the shop's lawyer (or just a technician smarter
than you) has to ask, ya know: "Sir, did you read the
owner's manual, and if you did, what part concerning the oil
pressure light did not make sense to you?... Sir, do you
have a mental disability?"

 

I've been doing it for 40!

Not at all. Seen it several times. Have you? What I am saying is
to hit the oil plug just right so as to loosen it without leaving any
tell-tale marks or damages anywhere near it is of such a remote
possiblitity as to be virtually impossible.

Actually, it's quite easy. Lack of proof that it did happen is proof
out of hand.

I'd drop it before you lose what little credibility you have.

nb

 

I can't quite parse this, but if you're saying the courts do
not consider alternative explanations, weighing the
plausibility of them, for a phenomenon, then you're quite
mistaken.

I think the thread speaks for itself.

We disagree.

 

I gotta go with "notbob" on this one. If a road object was struck
involving the drain plug, peripheral damage should be evident and still
the plug would probably stay intact providing it was tightened properly.

JT

 

In Hondas, as in just about ALL cars made after about 1960, oil pan drain
plugs are generally oriented towards the rear of the car, and placed
*above* the *lowest* point on the drain pan.

In order for a foreign object to rip the plug out of the sump, or displace
it enough to cause it to fall out or leak, it would have to be encountered
during impact occurring when the vehicle was in rearwards motion, and/or
the impact would have to be devastating enough to severely deform the sump.

 

Yep. Having seen more than a few trashed oil pans/sumps in both autos
and motorcycles, I've never seen one that was missing its oil plug.
I've also seen at least one missing oil plug episode. No
crossthreading, no stripped threads, just gone. It's from not
tightening the damn thing, plain and simple.

nb

 

Just once, I saw a no-plug thing. In that case, the plug had been finger-
tightened and the tech had forgot to torque it down. It fell out within
minutes of the customer leaving the shop.

Light came on, client (very wisely) immediately shut the motor down, garage
towed the car back and corrected the problem. End of story.

 

yep!

 

I had an oil problem once in a '75 Toyota Corolla in 1981 or 1982 (long
time ago, memory fails).

Light came on. I pulled over immediately. Oil was off the stick, and right
side of block was soaked.

What had happened was I had added a brass tee in order to hook up both the
OEM idiot light and an aftermarket gauge at the same time, and the tee had
broken away from the block, spewing oil everywhere.

It was Sunday, and in Ontario back then very few places were (allowed to
be) open on Sunday. Luckily I found one garage open. The attendant charged
me almost ten dollars for two quarts of oil (ouch!). I found a suitable
wood screw and a bit of gasket material in my toolbox. Combining all of
that, I made it home.

Car ran fine for many years afterwards.

 

Begs the question of whether the guy could win in court
(small claims or otherwise), which has been my point (or
I've tried to make it clear that it's my point) all along.
This is about probabilities. You seem to be aware of this,
since you qualified your statement with "should" and
"probably." That's how I'd qualify discussion of whether the
drain plug could get knocked loose, too. Still, the problem
is proof. It's been weeks since the oil was changed. Too
much could have happened to justify blaming the shop. The OP
says this and that, but the problem is he can't prove any of
it. It's his word against the shop's.

Plus, there's still the whole issue of how the OP responded
when his low oil pressure light came on. How to respond to
that is crystal clear in the manual. The OP did not follow
those directions at all.

I know, I'm talking to the walls. I don't think many of us
are on the same page here at all.

Anyway, the OP seems determined to get money from the shop
for his major loss. Let's see how far he gets, though I fear
those of you urging him to pursue this further are going to
end up costing him more.

I can imagine how unhappy this young man is, though.
Thousands of dollars down the drain on a, well, youthful
mistake. We've all probably been there.

 

My experience with regards to "loose" oil plugs as a result of sloppy
service from quick change oil places are almost always resolved in favor
of the customer. It's an almost common occurrence...

JT

 

A month after the fact? Paying for a new engine?

I'd have to read the details.

 

EOT

JT

 

I don't think you have much of a case - problem arose too long after the
job was done, enabling the oil change place to claim your car was fine
when it left their shop. They don't have to explain, nor are they
responsible for, what "might" have happened subsequently leading to your
engine failure.

Your call.

Sorry to hear about your problem, really sucks having your car conk out
like this.

 

Sorry, Elle, the burden of proof is on the party claiming negligence,
not the other way round. This is a civil matter, so the standard is a
preponderance of evidence and not beyond a reasonable doubt; but I don't
think OP has a case here.

BTW, you're the one who asked

so it's up to you to prove that that's indeed what happened. Barring
some freak videotape turning up a la Rodney King, there's no practical
way to establish exactly *what* happened.

 

Sorry, Sparky, but I never said otherwise.

Of course the standard is a preponderance and not beyond a
reasonable doubt. Likewise, I never said otherwise.

You need to read carefully.

No, you've got it all messed up.

We happen to agree that too much time has elapsed to make a
persuasive argument that the shop was at fault.

You're misconstruing my statements.

 

wrote in @j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

JDM imported engine for that car costs roughly around 500 bucks or less
with low milage. If you do have a good lawsuit, start out by finding a
motor for your car. Look on the internet at hmotors online and osaka
motors. They both carry JDM honda motors.

Once you've found the one you want to replace it with (a single cam non-
vtec 1.5L or 1.6L D-series motor), get pricing (including shipping), add
the installation costs (get a quote from a shop) and then add about 300
to 500 dollars for odds and ends, and you have the amount to sue for.

Unfortunately, the only evidence you have is the mechanic's word who
pointed it out to you. Hopefully he's credible. If all else fails, start
a smear campaign, and contact newspapers, etc, about your problem. Maybe
the oil change facility will cave and pay for your new motor (doubtful).