It's official. Manual transmissions are making a comeback.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Gordon McGrew, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. There are lots of great statistics at the Government CAFE web site.
    Lots of compiled data on cars going back to 1977 (and some even
    older.) One interesting trend tracked is the percentage of
    automobiles with automatic transmissions.

    In 1977, 84.1% of all new cars had AT. Under pressure of demands for
    improved fuel economy and increasing consumer preference for import
    cars, that number dropped to 75.0% in 1987. Then imports went
    upscale, ATs became more sophisticated and fuel got cheap. By 2002,
    88.5% of new cars had only two pedals and the imminent demise of the
    manual transmission was widely predicted.

    Then something funny happened. There were rumors of rebellion in the
    ranks and increased reports of drivers demanding control of the gear
    ratios. In 2003, the percentage of cars sold with automatics dropped
    precipitously to 82.4%. The CAFE site is now reporting a further drop
    in 2004 with the lowest percentage of AT's since 1991, 79.6%. That
    means that the number of cars sold with manual transmissions increased
    77% in only two years and a clutch is now found in one of every five
    new cars.

    In terms of sales, this trend actually surpasses the much touted
    return of rear wheel drive and the movement is broad based. While
    keeping in mind that the politics of fuel economy can skew the
    definitions pretty badly, the trend is apparent in domestics, Asian
    and European imports. All are selling manual transmissions at levels
    that haven't been seen in a decade. Almost half of all European cars
    are now shifters, the highest rate since 1988.

    Will this be a long lasting trend or a brief flash? It is still too
    early to tell but it certainly shows that the old MT is going to be
    harder to kill than it once appeared. The auto companies have now
    learned that there is a solid base of buyers who prefer to shift for
    themselves and the increased availability of this option is sure to
    follow.


    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/NewPassengerCarFleet.htm
     
    Gordon McGrew, Mar 25, 2005
    #1
  2. On the other hand, you can't have hybrid gas/electric with MT. It's
    kind of a bummer because I like responsiveness of manuals but the
    milage*power level is falling behind some automatics. Regenerative
    braking, continuous gear ratios, ultra-lean burn, and cylinder bypassing
    need to be coordinated with an AT. The decision was much more clear-cut
    a few years ago when you chose between a peppy 5-speed manual or a
    sluggish 3-speed automatic. Now cars like the Accord Hybrid make the
    decision tough.

    If we get fuel cells in marketable condition there may not be multiple
    gears anymore. You'll just have a knob to select how much regenerative
    braking you want when you take your foot off the throttle. Crank up
    regenerative braking and you'd have lightning fast response to throttle
    changes.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Mar 25, 2005
    #2
  3. On the other hand, you can't have hybrid gas/electric with MT. It's
    kind of a bummer because I like responsiveness of manuals but the
    milage*power level is falling behind some automatics. Regenerative
    braking, continuous gear ratios, ultra-lean burn, and cylinder bypassing
    need to be coordinated with an AT. The decision was much more clear-cut
    a few years ago when you chose between a peppy 5-speed manual or a
    sluggish 3-speed automatic. Now cars like the Accord Hybrid make the
    decision tough.

    If we get fuel cells in marketable condition there may not be multiple
    gears anymore. You'll just have a knob to select how much regenerative
    braking you want when you take your foot off the throttle. Crank up
    regenerative braking and you'd have lightning fast response to throttle
    changes.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Mar 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Sure you can. Both the Civic and Insight hybrid models are available
    with MT. Accord hybrid comes only with AT for now, but you can get an
    MT on your V6 Accord now so it isn't implausible that the hybrid may
    get it eventually.

    I think that it will be a long time before fuel cell cars are any more
    than a curiosity.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Mar 25, 2005
    #4
  5. Sure you can. Both the Civic and Insight hybrid models are available
    with MT. Accord hybrid comes only with AT for now, but you can get an
    MT on your V6 Accord now so it isn't implausible that the hybrid may
    get it eventually.

    I think that it will be a long time before fuel cell cars are any more
    than a curiosity.
     
    Gordon McGrew, Mar 25, 2005
    #5
  6. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

    Well, now the trend is to have both manual and auto trannies on the same car
    which is called million different names such as autostick, tiptronic,
    easytronic, multimod manual, activeselect or whatever... and all range of
    cars started to have this kind of transmission.. from cheap econobox such as
    Toyota Yaris 1.0 liter to expensive cars like MB and BMW. I just bought a
    1.2 liter Opel Corsa with Easytronic transmission. It has 5 forward gears
    and you can shift the gears manualy if you want and it gets considerably
    better gas mielage compared to the same car with stick shift (6.8 liters /
    100 kms in city versus 7.8 liters / 100 kms in city driving).

    Ahmet

    Turkey
     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

    Well, now the trend is to have both manual and auto trannies on the same car
    which is called million different names such as autostick, tiptronic,
    easytronic, multimod manual, activeselect or whatever... and all range of
    cars started to have this kind of transmission.. from cheap econobox such as
    Toyota Yaris 1.0 liter to expensive cars like MB and BMW. I just bought a
    1.2 liter Opel Corsa with Easytronic transmission. It has 5 forward gears
    and you can shift the gears manualy if you want and it gets considerably
    better gas mielage compared to the same car with stick shift (6.8 liters /
    100 kms in city versus 7.8 liters / 100 kms in city driving).

    Ahmet

    Turkey
     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

    of course, i didn't mean that these cars have 2 transmissions...just one
    with with the capabilities of both both manual and auto transmission...

    ahmet
     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

    of course, i didn't mean that these cars have 2 transmissions...just one
    with with the capabilities of both both manual and auto transmission...

    ahmet
     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #9
  10. shhhhhhh......don't tell Honda, who sells them by the boatload with
    manual transmissions.....
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Mar 25, 2005
    #10
  11. shhhhhhh......don't tell Honda, who sells them by the boatload with
    manual transmissions.....
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Mar 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Gordon McGrew

    Dave Guest

    Yes, I wonder how they (NHTSA) are defining "manual". Some of the
    ones you listed are typical torque converter ("slushboxes") where
    they just add a manual shifting mode. Others have actual manual
    trannies, just with an electronic clutch, ex: BMW's SMG. I
    believe your "Easytronic" is the latter?

    I wonder how many folk who buy the tiptronic type actually
    manually shift. When I've driven those, I get tired of the
    novelty in the first drive and just end out driving them like
    every other automatic.
     
    Dave, Mar 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Gordon McGrew

    Dave Guest

    Yes, I wonder how they (NHTSA) are defining "manual". Some of the
    ones you listed are typical torque converter ("slushboxes") where
    they just add a manual shifting mode. Others have actual manual
    trannies, just with an electronic clutch, ex: BMW's SMG. I
    believe your "Easytronic" is the latter?

    I wonder how many folk who buy the tiptronic type actually
    manually shift. When I've driven those, I get tired of the
    novelty in the first drive and just end out driving them like
    every other automatic.
     
    Dave, Mar 25, 2005
    #13
  14. It's the Toyota system as used in the Prius and Ford Escape that can't have
    a manual; in fact, it can't have any transmission at all. It has an
    "electronic cvt" that is really just a pair of motor/generators in a
    differential arrangement with the gas engine... there is no place to put a
    transmission in the power train. If it were called a "virtual cvt" it would
    be less confusing.

    Honda's IMA (integrated motor assist) works fine with a manual; Toyotas SHS
    (synergy hybrid system) could never have one, if only because the driver has
    no control over whether the engine is even running.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Mar 25, 2005
    #14
  15. It's the Toyota system as used in the Prius and Ford Escape that can't have
    a manual; in fact, it can't have any transmission at all. It has an
    "electronic cvt" that is really just a pair of motor/generators in a
    differential arrangement with the gas engine... there is no place to put a
    transmission in the power train. If it were called a "virtual cvt" it would
    be less confusing.

    Honda's IMA (integrated motor assist) works fine with a manual; Toyotas SHS
    (synergy hybrid system) could never have one, if only because the driver has
    no control over whether the engine is even running.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Mar 25, 2005
    #15
  16. Gordon McGrew

    tony kujawa Guest


    I wish they'd put a MT in the 4 door accord V6.
     
    tony kujawa, Mar 25, 2005
    #16
  17. Gordon McGrew

    tony kujawa Guest


    I wish they'd put a MT in the 4 door accord V6.
     
    tony kujawa, Mar 25, 2005
    #17
  18. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #18
  19. Gordon McGrew

    dragon Guest

     
    dragon, Mar 25, 2005
    #19
  20. Gordon McGrew

    Dave Guest

    Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "transmission", but
    I'd definitely say they have one! They have a set of planetary
    gears (which automatic transmissions also use). And yes, as you
    wrote, motor/generator is used to modify the gear ratio between
    the ICE and the driveshaft, as well as supply torque.
     
    Dave, Mar 25, 2005
    #20
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