It's official. Manual transmissions are making a comeback.

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "transmission", but
I'd definitely say they have one! They have a set of planetary
gears (which automatic transmissions also use). And yes, as you
wrote, motor/generator is used to modify the gear ratio between
the ICE and the driveshaft, as well as supply torque.

 

Describe that a little more, if you would. I have a Honda Civic Hybrid
with CVT, and I understand how it works. The IMA is fixed to the
crankshaft, so they are both turning at the same speed. The CVT is a steel
belt on movable "pinch" pulleys to provide the variable ratio.

I don't understand the mix of two electric motors and the CVT in the
Escape. Short of buying the service manual, can you point to a decent
reference for how it really works? I've seen some misguided crud, but no
real explanation. I assume that it is the same as the Prius, so reference
to that would be good, unless I can spot a discrepancy.

 

Describe that a little more, if you would. I have a Honda Civic Hybrid
with CVT, and I understand how it works. The IMA is fixed to the
crankshaft, so they are both turning at the same speed. The CVT is a steel
belt on movable "pinch" pulleys to provide the variable ratio.

I don't understand the mix of two electric motors and the CVT in the
Escape. Short of buying the service manual, can you point to a decent
reference for how it really works? I've seen some misguided crud, but no
real explanation. I assume that it is the same as the Prius, so reference
to that would be good, unless I can spot a discrepancy.

 

sweet! I also was under the impression that hybrids were only AT
(probably because Prius came out first), and I was saddened that I
would have to give up MT if I ever wanted to get a hybrid. But now I
can have the best of both worlds.

 

sweet! I also was under the impression that hybrids were only AT
(probably because Prius came out first), and I was saddened that I
would have to give up MT if I ever wanted to get a hybrid. But now I
can have the best of both worlds.

 

No, the Prius came out after the Insight. Insight: 2000. Prius:
2001. Civic Hybrid: 2003.

The Insight was available with both manual and auto trans, as is the
current Civic Hybrid.

The Toyota is a complex system; the Honda is simple and straightforward.
Integrated Motor Assist is probably more bang for the buck.

 

No, the Prius came out after the Insight. Insight: 2000. Prius:
2001. Civic Hybrid: 2003.

The Insight was available with both manual and auto trans, as is the
current Civic Hybrid.

The Toyota is a complex system; the Honda is simple and straightforward.
Integrated Motor Assist is probably more bang for the buck.

 

The Escape uses pretty much the same system as what Toyota uses, which
is way different than the straightforward Honda Integrated Motor Assist.

 

The Escape uses pretty much the same system as what Toyota uses, which
is way different than the straightforward Honda Integrated Motor Assist.

 

Try this treatise:
http://home.earthlink.
net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/Understanding/PowerSplitDevice.htm

I can't vouch for it being 100% correct, but it is similar to what
I've read before about the Toyota hybrid drive. Basically, by
varying the motor/generator1 speed, one can control the ICE rpm.

It's pretty neat, but also complex. 2 high-power
motor/generators.

Another reference:
http://www.me.utexas.edu/~tomr/body.htm

 

Try this treatise:
http://home.earthlink.
net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/Understanding/PowerSplitDevice.htm

I can't vouch for it being 100% correct, but it is similar to what
I've read before about the Toyota hybrid drive. Basically, by
varying the motor/generator1 speed, one can control the ICE rpm.

It's pretty neat, but also complex. 2 high-power
motor/generators.

Another reference:
http://www.me.utexas.edu/~tomr/body.htm

 

In the US, you are correct. But the Prius was released in Japan
and Europe before the Insight was produced. Honda reportedly
rushed out the Insight to beat Toyota to the US market.
Succesfully I would say as a lot of people think Honda made the
first commercial hybrid!

 

In the US, you are correct. But the Prius was released in Japan
and Europe before the Insight was produced. Honda reportedly
rushed out the Insight to beat Toyota to the US market.
Succesfully I would say as a lot of people think Honda made the
first commercial hybrid!

 

OK fine, is this better? =)

I also was under the impression that hybrids were only AT
(probably because Prius was the first hybrid to be popularized in the
mainstream US media).

 

OK fine, is this better? =)

I also was under the impression that hybrids were only AT
(probably because Prius was the first hybrid to be popularized in the
mainstream US media).

 

That site is by Graham Davies, one of the genuine Prius gurus. He writes
that he looked into it very carefully, and it is true - under many
conditions MG1 is used as a generator to provide power to MG2. It makes my
head hurt to visualize it.

Mike

 

That site is by Graham Davies, one of the genuine Prius gurus. He writes
that he looked into it very carefully, and it is true - under many
conditions MG1 is used as a generator to provide power to MG2. It makes my
head hurt to visualize it.

Mike

 

I think of the IMA as an electric turbocharger. It uses mostly wasted
energy later, to add some power to the little tiny gas engine that is able
to get high mileage. I wonder what kind of mileage the civic would get if
it just had the 1300cc engine, and no IMA. It is very simple to
understand, and rather obvious in operation.

I don't understand the Escape very well yet. Definitely a different
animal, and a precursor for the heavy hybrid (no pun towards the weight of
the SUV). The electric-only mode could be extended with a heavier battery
set and different logic so that it could operate completely electric and be
charged at night, and yet have the gas engine for long distance usage.
I have seen 99mpg on my average mileage display over a 10 mile stretch of
commute traffic. Then the engine starts, and the mpg plummets ;-)

I picture today's Escape as a Gas-Electric Hybrid, where the next
generation might be an Electric-Gas Hybrid.

 

I think of the IMA as an electric turbocharger. It uses mostly wasted
energy later, to add some power to the little tiny gas engine that is able
to get high mileage. I wonder what kind of mileage the civic would get if
it just had the 1300cc engine, and no IMA. It is very simple to
understand, and rather obvious in operation.

I don't understand the Escape very well yet. Definitely a different
animal, and a precursor for the heavy hybrid (no pun towards the weight of
the SUV). The electric-only mode could be extended with a heavier battery
set and different logic so that it could operate completely electric and be
charged at night, and yet have the gas engine for long distance usage.
I have seen 99mpg on my average mileage display over a 10 mile stretch of
commute traffic. Then the engine starts, and the mpg plummets ;-)

I picture today's Escape as a Gas-Electric Hybrid, where the next
generation might be an Electric-Gas Hybrid.

 

By that way of looking at it, SHS has two transmissions, like pretty much
all cars. The planetary "power split device" is a skewed differential and
could have been made like a typical differential if ruggedness weren't
important. No gears ever shift, there are no clutches or belts or hydraulics
or solenoids or forks. It is all fixed gearing, which makes it different
from automatic transmissions. The device should be bulletproof as long as
the lubricant is kept up, without the weaknesses of manual trannies (no
synchros, no clutch, no gear crunches possible).

The way I describe the system is to visualize an engine connected straight
through to a differential. Instead of wheels, there is a motor/generator on
each side of that differential. Connect another conventional differential
and wheel setup to one side, and there you have it.

Mike