Kia Optima beats Accord

The latest Consumers Reports surprised me with their rating of the Kia
Optima over the Honda Accord LXP. The Optima had more features than the
Accord, plus a more powerful I4 -- and an available 6 speed manual or
automatic at a couple of thou less. Reports did not recommend the Optima
because they have no reliability data. But, with the Accord only having
average reliability I suspect Kia will have no trouble matching the Honda in
this area. Of course, I have no desire to get rid of my 06 I4 Accord couple
for quite a long time, but the Kia/Hyundai group may be worth looking at in
a few years.

 

....as long as they can sustain above average frequency of repairs...

 

Who? Kia or Honda?

'cuz, Honda is right there at 1989 Hyundai levels as we speak.

 

No, that's not so. Take a look at the frequency of repairs data in last
month's Consumer Reports-- the automotive issue. You'll find Honda very
highly rated year after year. True the Accord is only average this year
but look at the 10 year trends...

 

frequency of repairs of /what/? the p.o.s. transmissions honda have
been using for the last 10 years have been a serious issue and both the
failures and the customer service related to them have been so bad that
they've alienated many die-hard [former] honda customers.

 

A detailed F.O.R. of all major systems and accessories listed
individually and broken out by year. There's a whole lot of hard data
there that refutes your assessment of the transmissions.

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote in message

Who? Kia or Honda?

'cuz, Honda is right there at 1989 Hyundai levels as we speak.

Read the comments with interest, but I think Honda has hit a slump or
perhaps they have marked time while others caught up. Consider the quirky
styling of the Acura line. The Cross-tour is another example that I really
don't understand. The Accord and the coupe are now fat and ponderous
looking. On the other hand the Fit is just right. The new Civic is --
bland -- does not achieve the same impact the last model did when it came
out. The Hyundai Elantra on the other hand is more interesting. I remember
in 1968 at the Tokyo Motor show ( I was in the USAF at the time) looking at
the Honda CB 750 on a revolving pedestal and thinking-- WOW! It was just
that -- bold -- a 4 cylinder in line motorcycle with a disc brake for around
the same price as one would pay for a Triumph Bonneville. It was not
commonplace. I don't see that anymore in Honda. The S2000 was perhaps the
last real gasp.

 

hmm, let's do this troll's homework for him, google "honda transmission
problem" and look at the first page of "About 597,000 results":

<http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/>

<http://www.hondaproblems.com/problems/transmission-failure.shtml>

<http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.php/news/main/3042/event=view>

<http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/03/honda-odyssey-owners-report-transmission-troubles-inconsistent-response-from-maker.html>

new york times??? edmunds??? consumer reports??? don't see anything
from troll st journal though so they must all be hoaxes.

 

Four people I personally know were considering Honda, but bought Hyundai:
three bought Hyundai Sonatas, and one bought a Kia Soul. A fifth was
interested in the Toyota Yaris, but purchased a Hyundai Accent instead.

All said they were impressed with Hyundai's content, and said you could not
beat that content for that price.

I think it's more than that: I think it's simply price-for-content. Looks,
or what happens five- or seven-years from now, does not seem to matter to
most; it's the purchase price that seems to mean most to most buyers.
Hyundai/Kia is as cheap as it gets, and Hyundai/Kia are now familiar enough
with buyers that they're tending to consider those brands to be competitive
with Honda.

Honda has got to be worried.

 

Colonel, you must be new here. No facts ever refute the beamer. But he
*is* cute!


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"This has to be a tough call for the environmentalists around the world.
They're scrambling now to blame this on global warming...Much of the
damage seems to have happened in that part of Japan most heavily
involved in manufacturing cars. So do environmentalists cheer or do they
pretend to be saddened by this? It's a legitimate question." -- Rush
Limbaugh

 

They are worried, actively worried, about Hyundai/Kia--and they are
desparately, in a panic, doing any random things they can to try to
attract those very customers.

3 years? That's all you need to worry about. And that's how Honda is
building their cars.

Honda is the new GM/Ford/Chrysler, all over their inability to compete
with Hyundai/Kia to their satisfaction.

One wonders if Honda even has the ability anymore to be what they used
to be, or if they've lost it over the last ten years during the
triple-punch of Hyundai competition, the downturn of the economy,
and--going back 15 years now--their turning of the company over to the
beancounters and away from the engineers.

 

I wonder how Subaru reliability compares to Honda models. Any data
on that? I don't mind if it is only anecdotal.

 

With all the citing of the decline of Honda, what brand do you folks
otherwise now recommend? I want to be prepared ahead of the time when I will
need a new car. I was figuring on someday buying my fifth Honda, but.... ?

 

yeah, you and me both.

I dunno. Toyota is doing well for me, but I hate the dealer support in
my area.

Subaru has an extremely loyal following, but hell--so did Honda.

Mazda maybe...

Certainly not VW, or M-B. The Germans make GM look like...Honda.

I have some inside word that the Honda brand has really been the one to
take the hit--that Acura still does it right. Mebbe. But damn, they're
fugly. Well, maybe you can't have everything.

 

One thing I liked about Toyota dealer service over Honda was that Toyota
gave you a loan car and Honda did not. That was a great convenience and
I did not feel Toyota service was more expensive to compensate for that.

 

Add me to the list.

Back in '91 I went to the Toyota dealer looking for another Corolla
Liftback. Seeing they had nothing of the kind other than wagons, I went
elsewhere, finding what I wanted with Honda in the form of the Integra
hatch.

I look now, to replace the 'Teg, and other than the TSX Wagon
(overpriced), I see nothing I like.

That's very much a local thing, and should be locally considered. Dealer
support is critical.

My local Acura dealer has been an absolute dream. Not perfect by a long
shot, but good enough to make me wonder whether paying a bit more for
the TSX wagon might not be worth continuing with my dealer...

I /really/ like the 3 Sport. /Really/ like it. Not sure about the local
Mazda dealer, though.

They're built in the same plants with the same workers and many of the
same parts. In most markets "Acura" models are sold as "Honda".

I don't like the looks of anything these days. Mazda 3 included.

 

From what I'm hearing, Hyundai. Hyundai has made massive gains since the
early-'90s. Hyundai is now a legit competitor to Honda. Honda knows it too,
copying Honda's market offerings almost line-by-line.

I'm hearing (first hand) absolute raves about the new Sonata, which costs
way less than the Accord. On the other hand, the Accent purchased by
another acquaintance is not looking promising: dealer messed up the A/C
system big-time when installing the "carbon fiber" trim pieces, and has not
yet been able to fix it, and the right-hand signal-repeater now has
moisture inside of it...

 

That was neither Toyota nor Honda, but the DEALER you dealt with. The
company that owned the Toyota dealer had a policy of giving customers a
free loaner, while the owners of the Honda dealership did not.

Once the automaker sells the car to the dealer, they do not much care what
the dealer does with it afterwards.

People, please, try to remember this: the dealer is NOT--repeat--_NOT_ the
automaker! Dealer owners simply lease FRANCHISES from the automaker.
Otherwise they are totally separate entities.

See here:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchising>
The Wiki page deals only with restaurants and service industries, but the
concept (and legal environment) is identical when it comes to retailing
branded-products such as cars.

(Mercedes is an exception to the above, so don't try and make a connection
between Mercedes dealerships and those of other automakers.)

 

Correction: HYUNDAI knows it too,...".

 

OK, granted. However in my area all Toyota dealers seem to do it so I
assume the reason being some kind of Honda corporate program that
entices the dealers to offer loaners.