Maintenance Reminders redux

Hi

I thought the group might appreciate this short tale. I shared with
you that I purchased a 2006 Honda Accord. It has now turned over
20.000 miles. Like clockwork, I got an email message from the service
facility at the dealer from whom I bought the car that it was due for
it's "20,000 mile service."

Well, I dug out the owners manual, and looked for a schedule. Instead,
it told me that the computer would tell me when the car needed
service. No mileage schedule. I remembered the collective wisdom of
this group and that this subject was discussed, so I dug through the
archives. No mileage schedule. I searched the internet. No mileage
schedule.

So, I replied to the email from the service facility, explaining that
all of the information I had was that the car would tell me when it
needed service and if the service manager knew something I did not
know, then he should share it with me. Particularly, I wanted to know
if there really was a mileage schedule that supplemented the
maintenance minders.

No reply after a week.

I think I will take my car, when it really does need service,
somewhere else.


Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

File

 

sorry,that was a typo.

 

You can bring your car someplace else, but if that someplace else is
another franchised dealer, you will be faced with the same annoyance. You
may even face the same problem with a well-run independent garage if you
end up on their mailing list.

You see, it is the business of businesses to try to drum up business.
Advertising is how they grow; part of how they manage to turn a profit and
thereby employ persons (such as yourself) to perform the work that needs
doing in the course of doing business.

Caveat emptor, remember? The smart buyer spends only what is necessary, and
most of all, /knows/ what is necessary.

Having said all the above though, I find myself compelled to say that there
is no such thing as too much service. Your car is like a woman: it loves
attention and will respond well to it.

 

I just got a service reminder for my 94 GSR that was stolen,stripped and
torched the end of June. No email addy listed so I could update them and
have them delete me and that car from their database.

I've already updated Carfax in case St.Farm sells the carcass and someone
tries to refurb and sell it.

 

A sad end for a fine car.

I'm so glad I live in the sticks where I do, well away from the anarchy of
the cities.

 

This page might be of interest to you...
http://www.high-road.com/maintenance/maintenance.htm

Eric

 

It's not the annoyance, it's the deceit. If there is a maintenance
schedule based on mileage, then Honda or their service departments
should tell us about it. (I suspect there is.) It is also the failure
to respond to my email request. That is what lost them a service
customer. If they can take the time to send an emil to me, they can
take the time to reply to mine. I know they are busy. So am I.

Lacking information about a "secret" maintenance schedule, my best
bet seems to be to go by the owners manual (something that is often
recommended on this group). The manual specifically states that I
should have the car serviced when the maintenance minder says to. So,
that's what I plan to do. There are no listed alternatives for more
frequent service.

I do not think that going beyond service recommendations is cost
effective anyway. One could change oil every 1000 miles, every 10,000
miles or somewhere in between. Where is the point at which more
frequent oil changes do so little good, that they are simply not
worthwhile? Clearly every 1000 miles is too often. But is 10,000
miles too long an interval?

On my previous Honda, I decided I would go with what the owner's
manual said, which was every 7,500 miles, despite the local Quicky
Lube's insistence that it should be every 3000. The car had just
turned 200,000 miles and was running like a fine watch when it had
it's collision with a concrete barrier which severely damaged the
suspension.

Speaking of which, I now regret that I did not take the salvage value
from the insurance and keep the car. I think I could have repaired it
for less than the salvage value, especially if I had harvested good
parts from the local automobile recycler.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

It is interesting, but this is from a company that provides (sells)
service. For example, it has that 3000 mile oil change recommendation.
No automobile manufacturer has a recommended oil change interval that
short. Most are going to longer intervals.

Here is another approach:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/interval.html

And still another

http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/oil_change_main.html

And still another.

http://greenmesh.com/2007/07/oil_changes_intervals_get_long.php


Only one thing is clear. Whatever is being "sold" has a great effect
on the recommended oil change interval.



Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

There is not (aside from the servicing that arises from observed need).

What the dealership is trying to do is to get you to do more work than
the Maintenance Minder indicates. If you were running that dealership,
you'd do the same thing. The service department is a real money maker,
mostly because nobody takes care of their cars.

I think you need to ease up here.

Two explanations: 1)( They got somebody else to send out the mass
mailing on their behalf, or 2) they're like a lot of companies that do
very little email and thus never check it.

I agree it's pretty silly to have a published email address, send out
messages using it, then not respond to replies.

It's also possible the dealership didn't want to put any answers in
writing for fear of later getting in trouble. Did you include a
telephone number?

You RTFM! Everybody knows you're not supposed to do that!

Not if the Maintenance Minder says it OK. That depends on the use of the
specified oil, too. You can't put just any old junk in there and rely on
the Maintenance Minder.

Considering your desire to abide by the Owner's Manual, I assume you
will use the correct Honda-specified fluids when it's time to change
them? Honda fluids are more expensive.

 

Yes, with one exception. The service facility I plan to use (a
different Honda dealer) has always given me excellent and prompt
service. Their prices have generally been lower than independents
(e.g. timing belt replacement). They use Castrol GTX, so that is
probably what I will go with.


Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

Keep in mind that for the most part, those service intervals are
heavily, heavily influenced by the marketing group. They absolutely
need to compete on that level with everyone else who's claiming no need
for service for 100K miles or whatever. Marketing groups serve their
own needs, no one else's.

Also, the car makers are building them to be obsolete. And for the most
part, the sheeple respond. When you see things like "7500 mile oil
change interval" or "we'll tell you when", it may be true--or it may be
that "if you follow our generous interval, nothing bad will happen to
you during the 3 or so years you own this car before your stupid burning
lust to spend $30K takes over and you go buy a new one".

For the information you're looking for, you need to find where the
engineers go for beer and wings and buy them a round one night.

Going beyond service recommendations is not always a waste of money.
There is a point beyond which it's throwing money away, of course. But
given the variability of manufacturing, it may be that you have the
engine that doesn't quite respond as well to the 7500 mile intervals as
another car might--but will be very happy with a 5000 mile interval, for
example.

You wouldn't know that until after the engine blew up, so what do you do?

 

wait--hold that--

--they're more expensive to purchase. They are NOT more expensive to
operate the car with.

It's the cheapest man who spends the most.

 

This may be true, but I see no compelling evidence. When I was a kid
in high school, an automobile with 50,000 miles was due for a major
overhaul. 100,000 miles on an engine was so rare that it was a news
worth event. Now cars go 250,000 miles with no replaced engine parts
at all except for maybe spark plugs and timing belt. And they still
have good power and compression.

I had my 93 Honda far longer than any other car I ever owned and I
tend to keep 'em for a long time. It was still running great and as
far as I could tell had another 100,000 miles in it. Some plastic bits
had broken off, but they were easy to replace.


Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

This may be true, but I see no compelling evidence. When I was a kid
in high school, an automobile with 50,000 miles was due for a major
overhaul. 100,000 miles on an engine was so rare that it was a news
worth event. Now cars go 250,000 miles with no replaced engine parts
at all except for maybe spark plugs and timing belt. And they still
have good power and compression.[/QUOTE]

Let's just say that longevity at best is a byproduct of other design and
engineering decisions. The main decisions have to do with lowering the
cost to build the car while making people happy for about 3 years. If
in the course of doing so they end up making a car that lasts longer, so
be it.

 

So, you asked for service mileage recommendations and I gave you a link for
a well researched list based on roughly 25 years of empirical evidence (one
of the owners of that shop is not just a "salesman" but also has a degree in
mechanical engineering). However, all you appear to have done is shoot it
down since you have already made your mind up about oil change intervals.
While I'm not going to argue over the recommended length of oil change
intervals, I really don't care when you change your oil or if you never do,
one thing seems clear to me, you have already made up your mind and really
didn't want a list of service mileage recommendations or you wouldn't have
shot it down simply because you disagreed with only 2.5% of the information
in the list.

 

I did not ask for recommendations. You supplied some, I assume, in the
interest of continuing the conversation. I replied with some
alternative viewpoints, also in the interest of continuing the
conversation.

Do with them as you wish.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer

 

Your original message...

> schedule that supplemented the maintenance minders.
 
 

 

He asked for Honda's recommendation. You did not provide that in the
least. Any recommendation of 3000 Miles on today's engines is not well
researched. Not a single auto manufacturer recommends 3000 miles
anymore, and there is a reason.

It is silly to suggest that they give longer recommendations in order
to compete with other manufacturers. Especially for Hondas and Toyotas,
which sell (largely) on a history of longevity. It is not in their best
interest to give a service recommendation that will decrease said
lifespan. That reputation took decades to develop, and can be destroyed
in just a few short years. It would likely be the death of the products
future sales.


--
Joe - Registered Linux User #449481

"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..."
- Danny, American History X

 

You've never lived in the marketing world, have you?