Make it easier to get safety features.

Thank you! I looked at one on the lot Saturday and that was the
immediate impression I got.

Don't they have anyone to help with their styling?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
drum?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
drum?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Not for the Accord, but
http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farming_stopping_power_2/ addresses the
subject in heavy trucks and says:
"Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
powerful air chambers and larger friction material."

Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O

Mike

 

Not for the Accord, but
http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farming_stopping_power_2/ addresses the
subject in heavy trucks and says:
"Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
powerful air chambers and larger friction material."

Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O

Mike

 

As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
with your statement.

But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.

Defensive driving is what it's all about...

JT

 

As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
with your statement.

But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.

Defensive driving is what it's all about...

JT

 

Oh, yeah. Backing off 5 mph on speed has wonderful effects on both the time
available for reaction and on stopping distance... not to mention
maneuvering stability. And just listening to that voice that says, "hey...
what's happening there?" is a lifesaver.

Mike

 

Oh, yeah. Backing off 5 mph on speed has wonderful effects on both the time
available for reaction and on stopping distance... not to mention
maneuvering stability. And just listening to that voice that says, "hey...
what's happening there?" is a lifesaver.

Mike

 

No, it's *not* the same thing.

Have you tried it? The best systems are the ones that allow some sideways
movement *cough* and bring you back into line gently and without slapping
your wrists.

BMW manage it, at least in the UK.

Mercedes, Lexus - don't. Indeed I believe the Mercedes car rings your
mother to tell you how naughty you've been...

EBD takes over where the rear brake force valve left off. It compensates
for weight in the car and allows greater rear braking effort, which can and
does shorten stopping distances. One of the great compromises in car design
is how to set up the brakes. For optimum braking, the valve that reduces
rear braking effort should be set such that all four wheels are at the point
of locking up at the same time with the same pedal effort from the driver.
Manual systems are set up to be close to this (with a margin for error) when
the car is one up, with some standardised conditions such as weather, tyre
design and pressure. When you're five up plus luggage, the rear wheels
could be braked rather more so.

EBD takes care of this for you. It also takes care of unusual pressure
differences, say, a front tyre being low in pressure and / or a rear being
unusually high in pressure.

No, it doesn't quite work like this. They are set up very well. It
monitors what you're doing and if it thinks you really mean to stop quicker
than you are doing so, it takes over.

If you accelerate firmly and then punch the brake pedal, it increases the
force applied. That combined with ABS and EBD can make the difference
between hitting the child that runs out in front of you and not.

99.9% of people, 99.9% of the time, won't trigger EBA.

Different bulbs, different reflectors...

That may depend on where you live and how the car is driven. Driven five up
in hilly terrain I can see how you'd want the greatest safety margin
possible.

I can see their use. Personally, I'd get somebody else to pay for them, and
I'd buy the car used.

 

No, it's *not* the same thing.

Have you tried it? The best systems are the ones that allow some sideways
movement *cough* and bring you back into line gently and without slapping
your wrists.

BMW manage it, at least in the UK.

Mercedes, Lexus - don't. Indeed I believe the Mercedes car rings your
mother to tell you how naughty you've been...

EBD takes over where the rear brake force valve left off. It compensates
for weight in the car and allows greater rear braking effort, which can and
does shorten stopping distances. One of the great compromises in car design
is how to set up the brakes. For optimum braking, the valve that reduces
rear braking effort should be set such that all four wheels are at the point
of locking up at the same time with the same pedal effort from the driver.
Manual systems are set up to be close to this (with a margin for error) when
the car is one up, with some standardised conditions such as weather, tyre
design and pressure. When you're five up plus luggage, the rear wheels
could be braked rather more so.

EBD takes care of this for you. It also takes care of unusual pressure
differences, say, a front tyre being low in pressure and / or a rear being
unusually high in pressure.

No, it doesn't quite work like this. They are set up very well. It
monitors what you're doing and if it thinks you really mean to stop quicker
than you are doing so, it takes over.

If you accelerate firmly and then punch the brake pedal, it increases the
force applied. That combined with ABS and EBD can make the difference
between hitting the child that runs out in front of you and not.

99.9% of people, 99.9% of the time, won't trigger EBA.

Different bulbs, different reflectors...

That may depend on where you live and how the car is driven. Driven five up
in hilly terrain I can see how you'd want the greatest safety margin
possible.

I can see their use. Personally, I'd get somebody else to pay for them, and
I'd buy the car used.

 

I still maintain that PAR would be much prettier... pedestrian avoidance
radar...

 

I still maintain that PAR would be much prettier... pedestrian avoidance
radar...

 

All the time. In the UK.

 

All the time. In the UK.

 

It's something that has been happening for an age and I suspect it will
continue to do so.

Thinking back to the introduction of ABS into "ordinary" cars in the UK, it
was for a long time reserved for the luxury or sporty ends of the
specification scale. It took a long time (five years) for it to be standard
across most Contour / Accord / Mondeo sized cars, some manufacturers adopted
it before others of course.

It wasn't quite the same with airbags, these literally arrived overnight in
1993 / 1994.

I don't believe it'll change. Such "value added" features are great margin
improvements. You don't think it actually costs 60% more to build the
sporty model compared to the base one do you? <g>

 

It's something that has been happening for an age and I suspect it will
continue to do so.

Thinking back to the introduction of ABS into "ordinary" cars in the UK, it
was for a long time reserved for the luxury or sporty ends of the
specification scale. It took a long time (five years) for it to be standard
across most Contour / Accord / Mondeo sized cars, some manufacturers adopted
it before others of course.

It wasn't quite the same with airbags, these literally arrived overnight in
1993 / 1994.

I don't believe it'll change. Such "value added" features are great margin
improvements. You don't think it actually costs 60% more to build the
sporty model compared to the base one do you? <g>

 

It's the implementation of some of these systems that I'm
not sure about.

Ideally, I'd like for the car to wait for some slippage to
occur before taking action. If it automatically jumps in
based on settings from the factory and OE tires, shocks,
suspension, etc., I think that could be undesirable.

If it waited for an error condition to occur, then you could
upgrade various things to improve cornering ability, and the
system wouldn't cut you off based upon the abilities of the
stock setup.

News you can use. I didn't know where it focused most of
its efforts.

Thanks for this analysis!

What I have read is that in emergency braking situations,
the average / untrained driver starts out by first not
applying enough pedal pressure (underbraking) and then
later in the stopping sequence when they're really scared
they overcompensate in the other direction (overbraking).

Ideally you would like optimal braking from start to finish
of the braking event.

http://tinyurl.com/mn9ry

The vehicle has sensors to determine the emergency braking
situation, and boosts breaking effort at the front end of
the event for the shortest possible stopping distance.

And the wife gets an $11 insurance discount every six months
for having DRL on her Subaru ...

Well, here's an interesting discovery for me. Beginning in
2007, Honda includes so many of these features standard that
the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option for
$650 gets you EVERYTHING.

I'm going to post a Camrey LE vs Honda EX comparison because for the
money, if safety is important, I think it's provocative.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

It's the implementation of some of these systems that I'm
not sure about.

Ideally, I'd like for the car to wait for some slippage to
occur before taking action. If it automatically jumps in
based on settings from the factory and OE tires, shocks,
suspension, etc., I think that could be undesirable.

If it waited for an error condition to occur, then you could
upgrade various things to improve cornering ability, and the
system wouldn't cut you off based upon the abilities of the
stock setup.

News you can use. I didn't know where it focused most of
its efforts.

Thanks for this analysis!

What I have read is that in emergency braking situations,
the average / untrained driver starts out by first not
applying enough pedal pressure (underbraking) and then
later in the stopping sequence when they're really scared
they overcompensate in the other direction (overbraking).

Ideally you would like optimal braking from start to finish
of the braking event.

http://tinyurl.com/mn9ry

The vehicle has sensors to determine the emergency braking
situation, and boosts breaking effort at the front end of
the event for the shortest possible stopping distance.

And the wife gets an $11 insurance discount every six months
for having DRL on her Subaru ...

Well, here's an interesting discovery for me. Beginning in
2007, Honda includes so many of these features standard that
the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option for
$650 gets you EVERYTHING.

I'm going to post a Camrey LE vs Honda EX comparison because for the
money, if safety is important, I think it's provocative.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

ive had this in a van for the last 5 months. Might be ust chrysler's
system, but it doesn't work too well for me, still get a loud tyre
squeal if I floor it to merge traffic. Nowadays I just turn it off
when I start the car.

i HATE this. Teach proper braking practice, not compensate for driver
inadequacy. i remember a few news stories from the UK a few years
back, where these kicked in uneqpectedly. guy tapped hi brakes because
he saw a speed camera ahead, just to chek his speed (as we all do) and
the thing did an emergency stop, causing a 3 car accident (car was
turning at the time). There were another case or two as well.
Until the car can sense the situation around it (not easy or
praticable) it should NOT have overriding command of motive systems.
Thats just plain common sense.

see your headlight switch - wire the first stop, so it'll also be
triggered by the ignition. if key's at II, lights are on - much better
than that stupid way saturn has of working off the handbrake -
friend's vue has its DRL going off every time he stops 9its a manual,
and he is n a hilly area, and drives properly, with handbrakes at
lights etc) volvo did it right years ago. if you use your regular
lights for daytime running, you don't need all the lights and
reflectors etc. just run from the ignition.

i wouldn't. I've not even a big ABS fan. i guess the problems is that
mostly these featurse are not set up as 'emergency' but as
'cautionary'. So they're on be default, and set to activate much too
soon. Of course, there are SOMe safety features I'd love to see
introduced into the UK thats been standard elsewhere for years. REAR
fog lights, for instance. Oh, and seperation of brake and turning
signals. removal of turning signals from being buried in with
headlights (see certain neons, and current crown-vics for instance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no luddite 9in fact, quite the opopsite) but i
do know where technology should not be substituted for driver
shortcommings. instead of whacking more tech on, hold the drivers to a
higher standard.