may be buying '91 accord with high miles need advice

i may be buying a 1991 accord that has 274,049 miles on it. the timing belt
and water pump have already been replaced probably for the 2nd time in its
life about 40,000 miles ago. the auto trans shifts ok. is there anything to
be extra concerned about with a car with that high of miles on it engine
wise. the body is better than some with lower miles that old.

-jeff

 

Is what you're paying consistent with the used car appraiser
prices at www.edmunds.com ?

I think buying a car this old with this many miles is a huge
roll of the dice. Sure, it could last 100k more. It might
not.

I'd check the coolant in the reservoir and see how clean it
looks. I'd test drive it for half an hour on the highway and
half an hour local driving.

 

A car with that many miles may be just as reliable as one a lot younger,
but it will be a HOBBY and require LOTS of TLC to keep it in top shape.

If you're looking for a buy-it-and-drive-it, forget this one.

 

i may be buying a 1991 accord that has 274,049 miles on it. the timing belt
and water pump have already been replaced probably for the 2nd time in its
life about 40,000 miles ago. the auto trans shifts ok. is there anything to
be extra concerned about with a car with that high of miles on it engine
wise. the body is better than some with lower miles that old.

-jeff

You may want to have it checked by a mechanic. A compression check should
be done. Many engines that have 274,049 miles have what I refer to as "bad
rings" and that's an expensive problem to fix.
You may also want to run a carfax report on it--don't buy it if it has
ever been involved in a accidents. Bent frames are VERY expensive to fix.
You might have someone else start the car while you watch the exhaust
pipe. If black smoke comes out--don't buy it.
Mechanics can easily determine if an engine has a cracked head
gasket--therefore, have the mechanic check that--that's also very
expensive to repair.

try carfax.com or google Car Fax or carfax

 

as stated by others, if you know about cars and can fix them yourself,
go ahead and buy it. it'll be fast, probably reliable and comfy. cheap
to insure & gas too.

quick & dirty:
check inside the oil cover. gummy deposits are a bad sign. excess oil
consumption [if you test drive it long enough to find out or the seller
is honest] is a bad sign. excessive blow-by [oil filler cap off with
the engine running] is a bad sign.

radiator cap, oily is a bad sign. dry is a bad sign. bubbles are a bad
sign [once fully bled].

touch wheel hubs after driving. fronts should be warmer than rears, but
any difference in temp side to side means binding brakes and the need to
recondition. if you're handy with that stuff, look to recondition the
brakes yourself pretty much right away after purchase.

beware steering system oil leaks of any kind.

 

come on guy, how much honda mechanical experience do you have? be
honest. you can have /very/ high mileage hondas that are almost
perfect. similarly, you can have near new ones that are duds. chances
are, if the vehicle's got this far, it's ok. it's all about
maintenance standards. nothing else matters. and compression testing
is pretty much a waste of time unless you've got some academic interest.
minor variance means nothing. substantial variance you can usually
hear on cold cranking. low compression is apparent from excessive
blow-by, and even then, if the car's cheap and only going to be run for
a year or so, so what? it'll still work, and keep on working for a
/long/ time.

again, on a car this vintage, wtf does a carfax mean? if it had a
reported repair year one, but has lasted the subsequent 14 years ok,
then what? is it a lemon because it was repaired, even if the repair
was factory standard? how does carfax help you differentiate between a
good repair and a bad one??? carfax is utterly irrelevant at this stage
- it's only possible value is on a nearly new car to see if it's a
re-build or not, and even then, only as a price factor.

if the cat's cold, maybe. but if you're looking for oil consumption,
oil gives blue smoke, not black. black is excess fuel, and that could
be normal operation. catalysts mask a multitude of sins.

that's stating the obvious - advice on diagnosis would be much more helpful.

don't waste the money.

 

come on guy, how much honda mechanical experience do you have? be
honest. you can have /very/ high mileage hondas that are almost
perfect. similarly, you can have near new ones that are duds. chances
are, if the vehicle's got this far, it's ok. it's all about
maintenance standards. nothing else matters. and compression testing
is pretty much a waste of time unless you've got some academic interest.
minor variance means nothing. substantial variance you can usually
hear on cold cranking. low compression is apparent from excessive
blow-by, and even then, if the car's cheap and only going to be run for
a year or so, so what? it'll still work, and keep on working for a
/long/ time.

again, on a car this vintage, wtf does a carfax mean? if it had a
reported repair year one, but has lasted the subsequent 14 years ok,
then what? is it a lemon because it was repaired, even if the repair
was factory standard? how does carfax help you differentiate between a
good repair and a bad one??? carfax is utterly irrelevant at this stage
- it's only possible value is on a nearly new car to see if it's a
re-build or not, and even then, only as a price factor.

if the cat's cold, maybe. but if you're looking for oil consumption,
oil gives blue smoke, not black. black is excess fuel, and that could
be normal operation. catalysts mask a multitude of sins.

that's stating the obvious - advice on diagnosis would be much more helpful.

don't waste the money.

Jim,
I usually agree with your posts and I have also learned a lot from the
posts of other real mechanics that post in this newsgroup. I am nothing
more than a back yard mechanic. However, I disagree with you related to
this car. Bad rings are a serious issue related to cars that have 274,049
miles on them. We have both followed old cars down the freeway or
interstate and seen black or blue smoke smoke coming out of the exhaust
pipes. You don't see black smoke or blue smoke coming out of the exhaust
pipes of most newer vehicles. I would not advise anyone (unless they were
a mechanic) to buy a car that has bad rings. The best way of discovering
bad rings is by conducting a compression check. Do you know of a better
way of checking the rings other than a compression check? I would not buy
a car if black smoke or blue smoke came out of the exhaust pipe. An engine
that is working normally should have almost no smoke coming out of the
exhaust pipe. I was referring to excessive amounts of smoke in my post--I
should have been more clear on that point. The reason that I mentioned the
carfax report was to help the poster avoid buying a car that had been
involved in an accident. As you know, a bent frame is a major problem.
jason

 

1. while high mileage can mean worn rings, worn rings do not mean high
mileage - mileage alone is not an indication of ring condition. and
cracked rings are another story entirely independent of mileage.

2. there are several reasons for blue smoke - rings is only one. black
smoke is something entirely different again and /nothing/ to do with
rings. and you /do/ see smoke on newer vehicles if there's something
wrong with them - just like older vehicles.

3. a carfax report doesn't tell you if the frame is bent. period. on a
car this age, it's an utter waste of money.

you have yet to make a single posting here of any value. even something
like "get aaa to do an inspection" would be more helpful that bleating
about a bunch of stuff you don't know about but irrationally fear or
worse, spending money on something you don't need and that won't help.

 

1. while high mileage can mean worn rings, worn rings do not mean high
mileage - mileage alone is not an indication of ring condition. and
cracked rings are another story entirely independent of mileage.

Cars that have 274,049 miles on them are more likely to have bad rings
than a car that has less than 100,000 miles on them. It's for that
reason a compression check should be done to determine if the car
does have signs of bad rings.

2. there are several reasons for blue smoke - rings is only one. black
smoke is something entirely different again and /nothing/ to do with
rings. and you /do/ see smoke on newer vehicles if there's something
wrong with them - just like older vehicles.

That is true. However excess levels of blue smoke or black smoke
indicate there is something wrong with the engine which would be a reason
for not buying that used car. I would not buy a car that had excess amounts
of blue smoke or black smoke coming out of the exhaust. Yes, I agree some
newer cars that have something wrong with them do have blue or black smoke
coming out of the exhaust pipes--I also would not buy one of those cars.



3. a carfax report doesn't tell you if the frame is bent. period. on a
car this age, it's an utter waste of money.

Yes, that is true. However, if a carfax report indicated that a car was
involved in an accident--it could mean that the frame was bent. If the
carfax report indicated that the car had NEVER been involved in an
accident, that would mean that it's unlikely that the car has a bent
frame. Without a carfax report, you don't know--you are taking a gamble
related to a bent frame.

you have yet to make a single posting here of any value. even something
like "get aaa to do an inspection" would be more helpful that bleating
about a bunch of stuff you don't know about but irrationally fear or
worse, spending money on something you don't need and that won't help.

I rarely post in this newsgroup but enjoy visiting this newsgroup since I
learn a lot from the mechanics.

 

jason, with respect, a compression test doesn't tell you much unless
you're already trying to diagnose a problem. it doesn't necessarily
tell you if you have a cracked ring and it doesn't necessarily tell you
if low compression is rings or a valve. [a wet test does, but let's get
real here - you're inspecting a 91 accord. do you want to pay for hours
of testing when an experienced mechanic can tell you if the engine's ok
in about 30 seconds? - blow-by with the engine running is what you
really want to know, and that's literally a 30 second test.]

that is utterly incorrect. absence of carfax record simply means no
/reported/ damage - and possibly the worst kind of backyard repair.
inspection is the /only/ definitive method of determining frame health.

you're "taking a gamble" if you don't get a physical inspection from an
experienced mechanic. call aaa to have them look at the vehicle if you
don't know what you're doing. that's much better use of the money you'd
otherwise spend on carfax.

enjoy away, but why do you give mechanical advice if you're not a
mechanic? that's what i don't understand with your posts jason.

 

On Sat, 27 May 2006 20:48:32 -0700, (Jason Johnson) wrote:

uh ... because everyone has an opinion and the OP was asking for advise on purchasing a vehicle
- not a mechanical problem specifically. Jason was expressing an opinion on what he would do if
he were purchasing such a vehicle. Your differing helps to put the suggestions into perspective
tho and all the info can then constitute real value.
What constitutes a "mechanic' ? - there are *many* mechanics that don't know squat, do crappy
work and will eagerly scam you for all your money given the chance. There are also many people
who do not call themselves mechanics who have extensive mechanical knowledge & experience whose
opinions can be very valuable. There is no criteria for posting in these groups - readers need
to use their own judgment on the value of the info provided.

don't let others dictate to you Jason & don't allow yourself to feel 'less than' anyone else
either. "Everybody is a Star" - Sly & The Family Stone. Jim's criticism can be of value, accept
it as knowledge gained - nothing more.